Graham wants alternatives…Gutierrez, Chertoff play “duelling secretaries”


graham.jpg

THREAD UPDATED FROM 5/20/07

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), was booed at his state party’s convention this weekend over his support for the Kennedy-McCain immigration reform bill. Apparently, the disapproval didn’t register with the former Jag lawyer, as evidenced by his combative performance on “FOX News Sunday.”

“To my colleagues who have come on the floor to tear this bill down with no alternative, you’re not doing this country a service and I will push back,” said Graham. “If you’ve got a better idea and you can lead us to a better solution, I’m all for it. But if all you’re going to do is embrace the status quo, I’m going to be your biggest critic.”

Graham, who at times has seemed to be running for the 2nd spot on the McCain ticket, is probably feeling like an opportunity is passing by him, as John McCain’s bid flounders under the weight of this most recent clash with the conservative gutierrez.jpgfaithful. Graham was not alone among Republicans on the Sunday talk shows in taking an outspoken line of defense on the bill. “I have the impression that perhaps for some people, the only thing that would not be amnesty is mass deportation,” Commerce Sect’y Carlos Gutierrez said on CNN’s “Late Edition.” “We don’t think that’s practical, we don’t think that’s logical, we don’t think that’s humane and that would hurt our economy. So it’s not amnesty.”

I want to make a couple of points for these two gentlemen.

First, Senator Graham, if you want alternatives, then you’re going to have to postpone the cloture vote that has been reportedly scheduled for early this week, and entertain the debate on this bill that the American People deserve.

Second, Sec. Gutierrez, there are many viable positions between the two polar extremes you outlined in your strawman argument. And, just because you think that mass deportation is not a viable option, it’s a false dichotomy to claim that as a result, the Kennedy Bill is the only logical conclusion. Frankly, I haven’t heard anyone calling for mass deportations. We’ve been calling for border security. After 9/11, it seems odd to me that this is such a foreign idea to the Administration. As a matter of fact, we thought we had won an important victory with the Secure Fence Bill last year. To find out that less than five miles of the 698 miles of promised fence has been built since then undermines the Administration’s credibility with the enforcement claims that have been touted in the Kennedy Bill.

Others blogging this topic: everybody! see also Politico

Hugh Hewitt spent his weekend reading…..thanks Hugh!

And so did NZ Bear (I am impress)

Update: Kathryn Jean Lopez has Mike Chertoff’s words of wisdom on CNN…

images2.jpgYou know, Wolf, first, I understand there’s some people who expect anything other than capital punishment is an amnesty. The reality is the proposal here requires people who came in illegally who want to stay to pay a penalty. Like a fine. That’s a punishment. That’s not an amnesty.

Secretary Chertoff and Secretary Gutierrez sound embarrassingly similar in their arguments, don’t they. Hehe. Dang, boys, we’ve spent the better part of the last 3 years defending your poor attempts at rhetoric. And you’re going to try and pull this Duelling Secretaries strawman argument sh1t with your own base? With all due respect gentlemen, you can kiss my foot, dirty toenails and all.
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73 Responses

  1. Out of touch. Completely. They have no clue what’s going on throughout America.

  2. B) Background Checks- The Secretary shall utilize
    fingerprints and other biometric data provided by the
    alien to conduct appropriate background checks of
    such alien to search for criminal, national security, or
    other law enforcement actions that would render the
    alien ineligible for classification under this section.

    (h) Treatment of Applicants-

    (1) IN GENERAL- An alien who files an application for Z
    nonimmigrant status shall, upon submission of any
    evidence required under paragraphs (f) and (g) and after
    the Secretary has conducted appropriate background
    checks, to include name and fingerprint checks, that have
    not by the end of the next business day produced
    information rendering the applicant ineligible –

    (A) be granted probationary benefits in the form of
    employment authorization pending final adjudication
    of the alien’s application;

    (B) may in the Secretary’s discretion receive
    advance permission to re-enter the United States
    pursuant to existing regulations governing advance
    parole;

    (C) may not be detained for immigration purposes,
    determined inadmissible or deportable, or removed
    pending final adjudication of the alien’s application,
    unless the alien is determined to be ineligible for Z
    nonimmigrant status; and

    (D) may not be considered an unauthorized alien (as
    defined in section 274A(h)(3) of the Immigration and
    Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324a(h)(3))) unless
    employment authorization under subparagraph (A) is
    denied.

    (2) Timing of Probationary Benefits.-No probationary
    benefits shall be issued to an alien until the alien has
    passed all appropriate background checks or the end of the
    next business day, whichever is sooner.

    Now ain’t that some shit?

  3. I think they know what we want, but have so many other considerations that are more important to them.
    An example comes from today. One of my colleagues clients, a very nice man, self-made first generation American, from euro immigrants. We’ve met several times, and he is genuinely a nice man. He is also a contributor to the Heritage Foundation, so I brought up the shamnesty bill to him, to gauge his reaction. His focus was on the need for the physical labor for this countries continued economic growth, and that deporting millions, after sealing the border, was unpracticable.
    I made a few points about the security threat we face, as well as the research that points out that the public expenditures on the illegals in this country exceeds their monetary benefits. He understood, or took pause, but was still firmly entrenched in the need for the labor force they provide for our economic growth.
    There are many perspectives, and while I have my own opinions, I do understand what motivates some people.
    Still, I believe I have the correct position, that sealing, competely, and impregnably, the border, only allowing those authorized to be here, is the first, and most important, step.
    I also believe an economist I heard on Michael Medved the other day, that said it more likely 33million illegals in the U.S. I still believe they can all be deported, and as for the heart wrenching images the media would seek, of families being ripped apart, I know there is one way the illegals could prevent this from happening…go home!
    I’m beyond tired of Mexico exporting their poverty to the U.S.

  4. Graham demands alternatives

  5. Mark Levin has some things to say about this, from Saturday and today, including an excellent rant, and a great link.

  6. How horrid for him! However could he and the family survive on only a half million a year part-time job for an off shore tax shelter? Somebody sign that family up for welfare quick!

  7. I’m sure that all the folks that have spent years in waiting for permission to come to the US legally are kicking themselves in the ass, packing a suitcase, and buying airline tickets to Mexico.

  8. The point is not that there is no labor to do the job as your friend said, N2L; the point is that illegal laborers are often working for wages under the table, are not covered by workmen’s compensation insurance paid by the employer (which in some industries is equal to the salary), are not paying taxes or social security, and can work for far less than workman that are paying taxes and social security, and whose employers have to have workmen’s comp on them. People are being forced to leave these industries because they cannot afford to live on the wages that have dropped to match the illegals wages, and businesses that do not employ illegals are not competitive in the marketplace.

  9. That one link on Mark Levin’s blog, to the American Thinker piece, is troubling.
    Feeling a little wore down, may have to shut it down, and hit the bunk.

  10. I understand that Swampie, I was just pointing out what one man with the Heritage Foundation finds most important, which could be a greater indicator of the influence they have at the policy level.

  11. SwampWoman
    To give you an idea how bad it is, my brother-in-law applied back in 2003. Last we heard from INS or ICE or whatever they call it now, is they are currently processing applications filed in 2001. Of course he has some strikes against him. Advanced degrees in engineering and a job

  12. No2liberals, if that is the case, I’m going to go out and join a seccesionist movement immediately.

  13. Bonz, EXACTLY! What kind of shit is that? Instead, we’re letting in people with no skills whatsoever except in scampering across the border.

  14. Some al quaeda yahoo can walk across the border tomorrow and be way ahead of your law-abiding brother in law.

  15. G’night, n2L, grandson numero uno turns tres manana, so I better grab a siesta because it will be an early day.

    His daddy is going back to work tomorrow before his mama commits homicide, so I’ll be going to help daughter out with the birthday festivities and carrying around grandson numero dos.

  16. And I have to buy a double stroller as a birthday gift for grandson number 2, and bring a birthday gift for grandson number 1, and daughter’s birthday is Saturday.

    Alms for the poor? Alms for the poor?

  17. Guess I’m talking to myself again. G’nite if anybody is still up.

  18. drove alligator alley today….fires in Big Cypress National Park. Surprised they didn’t close it. Saw helos with wter buckets in action

  19. Yeah, fires still in Georgia and N. Florida. They’re burning 4 feet underground in the peat, so it will take a LOT of rain to put that out.

  20. Which way was the smoke blowing? Saw on the weather that Miami had 5 inches of rain, the bastards.

  21. Um, guess I better buy a carbon credit for that. I’m really, really angry about that immigration bill.

  22. 8 inches in 5 hours. We arrived as the rain was clearing out. Winds appeared to be headed SSW. I thought they were conducting controlled burns as the fire crews were everywhere. On the way back it was worse

  23. I’m really, really angry about that immigration bill.

    You and me both…..I’ve been through the immigration process. Not going to wear a dunce cap but a hat with “sucker” written across the crown

  24. Well, if I find a good militia and secessionist movement to join, I’ll let you know. I do not want to be party to this sham no way, no how.

  25. Up here, it looks like the Sweat Farm/Big Turnaround fire are joining up with the Georgia Bugaboo scrub fire, and it’s going to the big turnaround complex fire starting tomorrow, I think.

    The firefighters here have done an excellent job at protecting everything and the Florida Bugaboo fire is 90% contained at this point. Georgia, however, still has some of the Okefenokee yet unburned.

  26. Well you’ve probably seen this, but he’s right
    “Don’t worry: It’s not an “amnesty.” Every politician in America is opposed to amnesty — if not the concept, then at least the word. That’s why the visa starts with the letter that’s furthest away from the one “amnesty” begins with. “Z” stands for zellout . . . no, hang on, zurrender or Zapatista, or some other word way up the other end of the alphabet from “amnesty.” But the point is, at a stroke there will be no more illegal immigrants. Because being illegal means you’re now legal.”
    [url=http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/393216,CST-EDT-steyn20.article]Capitulation, from A—— to Z[/url]

  27. You’ve probably seen this but he’s right
    [quote]Don’t worry: It’s not an “amnesty.” Every politician in America is opposed to amnesty — if not the concept, then at least the word. That’s why the visa starts with the letter that’s furthest away from the one “amnesty” begins with. “Z” stands for zellout . . . no, hang on, zurrender or Zapatista, or some other word way up the other end of the alphabet from “amnesty.” But the point is, at a stroke there will be no more illegal immigrants. Because being illegal means you’re now legal.[/quote]

    [url=http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/393216,CST-EDT-steyn20.article]Capitulation, from A—— to Z[/url]

  28. If Ed is right we could see some rain this week
    You probably saw this but he is right
    “Don’t worry: It’s not an “amnesty.” Every politician in America is opposed to amnesty — if not the concept, then at least the word. That’s why the visa starts with the letter that’s furthest away from the one “amnesty” begins with. “Z” stands for zellout . . . no, hang on, zurrender or Zapatista, or some other word way up the other end of the alphabet from “amnesty.” But the point is, at a stroke there will be no more illegal immigrants. Because being illegal means you’re now legal.”

    Don’t no how to post a link so….. http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/393216,CST-EDT-steyn20.article

  29. Yep, Mark Steyn is one of the first things I look at on Sunday! He’s absolutely right, too.

  30. Now that I’ve had the opportunity to read some of the bill, though, I should go back and re-read Steyn. Thanks for the link, Bonz!

  31. I certainly hope Ed is right about the possibility of rain later this week. I’m gnawing on my fingernails and looking for smoke plumes every time kids go riding through the woods on 4-wheelers.

  32. Drove 8 hours but this time I didn’t hold on to the cig butt until it burned out. That cost me a fire in the crotch area last year and a nice hole burned in the seat. This year a can with liquid was the ashtray. It worked…I think. No one can prove I started those fires 🙂

  33. In the horrible wildfires of 1998, there were 22 inches of rain that fell in Jacksonville from January through April. This year, there were 6 inches. On the other hand, the state has put a lot more money and equipment into firefighting training since then.

  34. Well, hopefully the fires down there are scorching some of those pythons loose. I read a story that they actually found an anaconda that was hit and killed crossing a road. Can you imagine if anacondas are out procreating?

  35. Heh. If I was smoking and set my crotch area on fire, I believe I’d quit.

  36. Well, I looked at our big rain possibility at the end of the week, all 20% of it. Maybe we’ll get some this time, we haven’t had any here since mid April, and it was just a trace.

  37. Burmese pythons too. 15 feet of snake with no natural enemies. It looked like the fires had burned out areas up to, but not including, the fences on either side of the alley. The number of accidents was way up. Those cops were earning their pay

  38. In 1998 from Jan 1 through May 18, there had been 1,650 fires with 28,493 acres burned. In 2007 from Jan 1 through May 18, we’ve had 2,355 fires with 445,663 acres burned! (In 1998, 500,000 acres total for the year burned.) It’s gonna be real interesting come June if we don’t get some significant rains soon.

  39. No doubt! It was so smoky here Saturday that it was hard to see oncoming traffic if their lights were not on.

  40. As soon as the sun sank behind the smoke plume from the wildfires this evening, it disappeared from view completely. Couldn’t even see a glow from behind the thick smoke.

  41. This state is toast…..literally. If this is followed by a major hurricane….BTW where is FEMA?

  42. Heh. There’s a letter to the editor in the local Jax newspaper by somebody pissed off because people use fuel-based boats and ships instead of sailing. Undoubtedly that person doesn’t need to worry about the enormous amount of freight that goes up and down the St. Johns river, and the Mayflower probably couldn’t carry a whole lot in the way of containerized vessels.

  43. Heh. That’s the point, Bonz. It WILL be followed by major hurricanes; the droughts always have!

    Sheesh, why do we need FEMA?

  44. Gad, I must be sleepy, I’m making more than my usual amount of typos.

    Containerized FREIGHT. Not containerized vessels.

    And the droughts have traditionally been broken by severe tropical weather.

  45. Personally, I think we should have ships rowed by galley slaves, but nooooooooo.

  46. Go to bed….We can solve the world’s problems tomorrow 🙂

  47. Oooh, perhaps we can have ships going up and down the St. Johns powered by illegal aliens rowing!

    Nah, I can’t solve the world’s problems tomorrow, I have a birthday party to attend and grandchild sitting to do! Then I work tomorrow night. You be good now.

  48. nite

  49. ‘Nite, Bonz. Glad to “see” you.

    Oh, I bought a pair of cheap trekker walking poles and they work great, although I’ve already worn the tips off.

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