Huckabee’s Willie Horton?

The question among many in the Huckabee camp centers around the recent media attention to an old case from Arkansas, and the governor’s involvement in the parole of a convicted rapist named Wayne Dumond.

While there is a great amount of anxiety over the fairness of pinning the blame for Dumond’s post-parole behavior on Huckabee, it really isn’t a great surprise that it should emerge as an issue in the Republican primary season. It is better, I think, for it to be completely hashed out now, rather than later. Certainly, it is included in the stack of opposition research that has already been compiled by the Clinton campaign.

Further, it is an issue that Huckabee must address, all by himself.

But, that doesn’t mean that the mud-framed-slinging that has emanated from political enemies should go unchallenged. It won’t.

Nor does it mean that Wayne Dumond will become the 2008 version of Willie Horton.

When I think about it, I’m of the opinion that the impact of the Willie Horton ads in the ’88 election are a little over-stated. Sure, it was a negative for the Dukakis campaign. But it wasn’t what made my mind up for me to vote Republican for the very first time.

dukakis_tank.jpgNo, the straw that broke it for me was the ridiculous video clip of Dukakis riding around in a tank. That did it for a lot of folks, not just me. And, if you ask Dukakis himself, he’ll tell you that it was his debate peformance, when Bernie Shaw asked him the hypothetical rape question….and Dukakis’ response, which left many of us just shaking our heads.

Bernard Shaw, the moderator of the debate, asked Dukakis, “Governor, if Kitty Dukakis [his wife] were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?” Dukakis replied coolly, “No, I don’t, and I think you know that I’ve opposed the death penalty during all of my life,” and explained his stance. During debate preparations, Dukakis’s campaign manager Susan Estrich had prepared an answer highlighting the candidate’s empathy for victims of crime, noting the beating of his father in a robbery and the death of his brother in a hit-and-run car accident. Many observers felt Dukakis’ answer lacked the passion one would expect of a person discussing a loved one’s rape and death. Many — including the candidate himself — believe that this, in part, cost Dukakis the election, as his poll numbers dropped from 49% to 42% nationally that night. source

In my opinion, it is going to take more than this decade-old bad decision by Huckabee to sink his candidacy in 2008. At the time, he thought he was making the right decision, and many people, on both the left and the right believed that Dumond was not guilty. Not having the benefit of hindsight, Huck made a decision that if he could change, he most certainly would.

Update: Huckabee lays out the details

Trackposted to Outside the Beltway, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary’s Thoughts, The Random Yak, Adam’s Blog, Right Truth, The Pet Haven Blog, Big Dog’s Weblog, Cao’s Blog, Leaning Straight Up, The Amboy Times, Chuck Adkins, The World According to Carl, Pirate’s Cove, Celebrity Smack, The Pink Flamingo, CommonSenseAmerica, Dumb Ox Daily News, Right Voices, and The Yankee Sailor, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe.

65 Responses

  1. Not a person alive wouldn’t change a few bad choices with the benefit of hindsight. (let he who is without sin………..)

  2. […] Read the rest of this great post here […]

  3. I’ve heard Mike explain this at least three different times on the radio, the first time with Hugh Hewitt. To put all of the responsibility on Mike in this is unjustified, as Arkansas operates the same way Texas does, only the Board of Pardons and Paroles can make the recommendation, and only then can the Governor sign off on it. The board were all appointees by the Arkansas Donk machine, Clinton then Tucker, not Mike’s appointee’s. It’s Mike’s issue in a “Buck Stops Here” kind of way, but not in the real sense.
    It’s important to remember that Tucker had commuted his sentence, prior to Mike taking office, so there was a record of officials not believing Dumont was a serious threat.
    I think that Mike’s opponents are just throwing what they can find, as the tax thing didn’t gain traction, and Mike’s momentum continued. I guess next they will harp on the crushed hard drives from the Governor’s office computers, when Mike left office. I’m here to say, that was a great idea.

  4. Hey…where is there an instance of the left wanting him paroled? Do you have any sources?

    I just see a lot from columnists like Steve Dunleavy and numerous evangelists. Alls I can say from this is wow…”religious candidate frees rapist due to Clinton grudge”. Religion and politics do not mix.

  5. From the conservative National Review Online:

    “Dear Wayne,” Huckabee wrote in a letter to Dumond. “My desire is that you be released from prison. I feel that parole is the best way for your reintroduction to society to take place.”…..

    Wow…remember when everyone is in an uproar over a blow job?

  6. Village Voice was crusading for Dumond.
    Here, and Here

    and further hyped Here

    The Castration of Wayne DuMond
    A Pardon That Clinton Didn’t Grant
    by Ward Harkavy
    March 7 – 13, 2001

    Huckabee Gets His Balls Squeezed
    posted: 10:46 AM, December 5, 2007 by Harkavy

    Atrios / Eschaton:
    The Tale of Wayne Dumond

  7. I guess next they will harp on the crushed hard drives from the Governor’s office computers, when Mike left office. I’m here to say, that was a great idea.

    BTW, I’m holding a couple of links to answer the hard drive thing when it comes up. Heh

  8. Nice job nuke! Kinda covers it to this point. Got anything to add sean?

  9. thanks Robert D.
    want more?

    Arkansas Democrat-Gazette column written by former managing editor, John R. Starr:

    “In the 13-plus years I was managing editor of the Arkansas Democrat, no story generated more letters and phone calls to my desk than the bizarre case of Wayne Dumond.

    I heard from and checked evidence provided by at least half a dozen folks who claimed to have investigated the case. The Democrat hired a free-lance reporter to investigate it for us.

    To a person, because not all were men, the “investigators” concluded that Dumond was innocent and that there was no way he could have received a fair trial in the politically charged atmosphere of Forrest City…

    [Starr goes on to quote and second the opinion of another columnist from the Arkansas Times, Mara Leveritt]

    ‘If ever a man deserved it (clemency),’ she wrote, ‘the castrated convicted rapist Wayne Dumond does. The case has been a travesty. In finally granting Dumond clemency, Huckabee has righted an overdue wrong.’

    Well said, Mara.” — Source: “Correcting an overdue wrong” by John R. Starr, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, October 3, 1996, pg. 7B.

  10. Personally, I wasn’t bothered by the Horny Hick getting a semi-BJ from a semi-attractive intern. I was bothered by the fact he wouldn’t be honest about it, for the improper use of a perfectly good cigar, and for staining the carpet that belongs to the people, not to him.
    Mike had been in office for how long when this matter with Dumont came up? Mike had appointed none of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. I reiterate, the Gov. of Arkansas cannot arbitrarily grant a pardon, without the recommendation of the Board of Pardons and Paroles.

  11. Hey Nuke,

    First off, thanks on letting an opposing voice on your forum. Very rare these days.

    FYI…from your same source you can argue he wasn’t crusading for DuMond as him being “an innocent” as Steve, et al, argued…but more on the alleged vigilanteeism that occured when he was castrated. He argues in a recent column that was what he was defending. (your recent post). He does nothing to defend Huckabee’s actions or DuMonds “innocence”.

    Of note is we can still find tons of support online from right wing sources on freeing DuMond, but just the few sources you have listed from the left.

  12. El Nuko…loaded up for bear.

  13. Hey Nuke,

    “Arkansas Democrat-Gazette column written by former managing editor, John R. Starr”

    John R. Starr was a notorious Clinton basher – he is the one who termed “slick willie”. Using him as a source is naming a right wing source. He is notorious for his anti Clinton comments.

  14. *Litmus Test*

  15. being anti-clinton does not make a person “right-wing.”
    (But, it does put him in good company)

    Arkansas Democrat-Gazette is a right wing publication?
    That’s news to me.

  16. no2liberals,

    If your idea of a litmus test is I wouldn’t vote for a candidate because it looks like in a moment of weakness he collapsed under pressure from his right wing cronies to help get a convicted rapist pardoned due to their hatred of another politician I’d say, yes, that guy failed the litmus test.

    All of Huckabees posturing on “how he had forgiveness in his heart” because he’s a Christian seems like crap. He had the highest death penalty approvals to date in AK, yet for some reason he granted this guy clemancy? Doesn’t make sense.

  17. There is more to this story, It will come out – during the primary season – rather than in the general election.
    Just as it should.
    Secrecy and concealment is a Clinton strategy.

  18. Hey Nuke,

    By your arguement it sure doesn’t make him left wing either, nor does it for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette – just because it has Democrat in the name doesn’t make it left leaning. In fact…it became very right leaning:

    “Critics of the Democrat-Gazette continue to argue that the paper is more conservative than its Little Rock subscriber base.”

    It became very conservative after ’92

  19. As Clinton was abandoning Arkansas for national politics, he stymied DuMond’s release from prison, ignoring the judgment of his own parole board in June 1990 that DuMond’s continued incarceration was a “miscarriage of justice.” (Village Voice)

    In late 1991, on the campaign trail, Clinton began to be pestered about the DuMond case. Recusing himself, in April Clinton turned over the matter to his lieutenant governor, Jim Guy Tucker. Unlike Clinton, Tucker read every word of DuMond’s voluminous file, a DuMond lawyer told the Voice. Tucker promptly reduced DuMond’s sentence, making him eligible for parole. Seven years later Republican governor Mike Huckabee signed DuMond’s release papers. (VV)

    more right wing criticism? I think not.

  20. “DuMond’s chances at his trial were hopeless. There would be no change of venue. The prosecutors were Clinton ally Gene Raff and his top local aide, Fletcher Long, who was also Sheriff Conlee’s personal attorney. Raff and Long were old college frat brothers of Stevie Stevens. The sheriff himself was the courtroom bailiff.

    No evidence linked DuMond to the teenager’s abduction, forced submission to oral sex, and brief penetration. In the primitive blood-semen testing that had been done (DuMond’s lawyer said a more expensive DNA test wasn’t needed), DuMond’s semen, as a match to a spot on the teen’s jeans, couldn’t be ruled out. (A DNA expert later testified in one of DuMond’s numerous appeals that the spot did not match.) The judge wouldn’t delay the trial for a single day so the defense could bring in its own witness. The teen had said her attacker had blue eyes; DuMond’s are hazel. But she insisted (and still insists) that DuMond did it. It was her word against his. DuMond’s trial lawyer never brought up her previous identification of someone else as her attacker. ” (VV)

    That doesn’t sound like crusading to you?

  21. Hey no2liberals,

    I know this is going to make me look like such a leftie but hell…your comment about Bill’s BJ:

    “I was bothered by the fact he wouldn’t be honest about it,”

    We all knew it, everyone did, but at the time it was being used as a way to freaking depose a president. A BJ, such drama from the republican side who nearly every member had at least one divorce.

    How about (and I can hear the groans coming but hell):
    – Lying to get us into a war with Iraq – warheads anyone? Iran coming up next with the NIE report?
    – Exposing a CIA agent to better further their agenda and attack critics
    – Destroying our credibility with all nations in respect to our stand on democracy
    – Biggest deficit ever

    Okay, phew…my lil left leaning heart spewed that out…it just stands that tho I respect yours and nukes positions I truly believe we have had the worst president (and staff) ever.

  22. Litmus test was referencing as to which ideology a newspaper subscribed to, as to whether you would accept their report. In the event you didn’t notice, Starr hired a free-lance reporter to investigate the story he published.
    What difference does it make even if, as you say, the Gazette is right wing or not? They did the work.
    Once again, for the third time, and I will put this in bold.
    The Governor of Arkansas, just like the Governor in my state of Texas, cannot grant clemency or a pardon without the recommendation of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. The Gov. can agree or reject that recommendation.
    If you believe partisanship is so important in this matter, then why did the board members, appointed by Clinton and Tucker, grant this recommendation on the pleadings of the first Republican Governor in Arkansas since Reconstruction? As Mike has said, countless times, if you believe he is that persuasive, then he really should be President.
    FYI, I have met Mike in a casual setting, just before his term as Governor ended, and before he entered the fray. I have a BS detector that I have relied on for decades, and it has seldom failed me, and his handshake, eye contact, body language, and ideas, never once made the needle budge on my meter.
    I still have questions, and want him to be a stronger candidate on the illegal immigration issue, but he has answered the questions on this Dumond matter, countless times on live national radio interviews.
    He is a Christian, and got his faith in the first year of marriage, when his bride was diagnosed with cancer, and they not only beat it, but had two great kids, which the doctors said she could never do. His faith is genuine, based on his experiences, and yes, it does shape the way he looks at things.

  23. GROOOAAAAAN! heh™

  24. – Lying to get us into a war with Iraq – warheads anyone? Iran coming up next with the NIE report?
    – Exposing a CIA agent to better further their agenda and attack critics
    – Destroying our credibility with all nations in respect to our stand on democracy
    – Biggest deficit ever

    Yeah, you are definitely indoctrinated to the LLL.
    Another time, perhaps, I can help you out with those misconceptions, but not tonight. The Red Rooster will be calling soon.

  25. Hey Nuke,

    Your last two postings:

    I read this article as well…

    – Are you stating that DuMond was innocent of raping her? (the eye color statement…I’m sure while being raped she was checking out details like that).

    Say your worst case scenario is correct – this guy got helped along by the system to being found guilty. Does then:

    – A long proven history of violence – including other sexual and battery assaults
    – Letters from rape victims to Huckabee stating their fear that he would kill

    Still give Huckabee a great reason to help this guy get pardoned?

    This guy, with his history, then went and killed and raped two other women.

  26. Hey sean, read this.
    America’s Standing in the World The second article is a bonus. You might think Global Warming is caused by man.

  27. I bet he wishes he wasn’t chewing gum when during that song. He obviously didn’t have the same homeroom teacher I had.
    “Spit that gum out, Nuke!”

  28. Dang…we had to swallow our gum.

  29. Hey sean, First post in this thread.

    Robert D, on December 6th, 2007 at 7:54 pm Said:

    Not a person alive wouldn’t change a few bad choices with the benefit of hindsight. (let he who is without sin………..)

  30. No, sean. I’m not saying that at all. The point was that Huckabee was getting it from both sides.
    For whatever reason, known only to Huckabee, he decided to sign the parole recommendation. Dumond walked.
    It turned out to be a terrible decision.
    All the people who were pushing for his release were just as wrong. But, they aren’t running for President.

  31. Hey no2liberals:

    -The Governor of Arkansas, just like the Governor in my state of Texas, cannot grant clemency or a pardon without the recommendation of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. The Gov. can agree or reject that recommendation.-

    “When Mike Huckabee became governor, he supported the release of Dumond, with one state official stating “The problem with the governor is that he listens to Jay Cole and reads Steve Dunleavy and believes them … without doing other substantiative work,”.[7] Huckabee wrote to Dumond in January 1997: “My desire is that you be released from prison,” and had to be persuaded not to commute his sentence in October 1996.[8]

    While the details of how much assistance Huckabee provided to Dumond are uncertain, it is on the record that the Governor met in executive session with the parole board to discuss the issue, a violation of Arkansas law as such executive sessions are limited to discussions regarding personnel decisions, specifically to avoid the appearance of undue influence from the Governors office. Later four of the five parole board members stated that Dumond was the subject of that executive session. Although minutes would normally be kept of even executive sessions, the office administrator was asked to leave the room, and no record of that session was kept.

    In any case, after Huckabee’s meeting with parole board, a number of serendipitous events conspired to result in Mr. Dumonds early release.”

    – Also it makes a huuuuuge difference if it is a biased right wing crap mill. You think the “freelance” reporters story would ever have been published if it hadn’t run through Starr’s approval? C’mon…it didn’t go mainstream from right wing sites. Starr had a HUGE hard on for the Clintons.

  32. – Lying to get us into a war with Iraq – warheads anyone? Iran coming up next with the NIE report?
    – Exposing a CIA agent to better further their agenda and attack critics
    – Destroying our credibility with all nations in respect to our stand on democracy
    – Biggest deficit ever

    Yeah, you are definitely indoctrinated to the LLL.
    Another time, perhaps, I can help you out with those misconceptions, but not tonight. The Red Rooster will be calling soon.

    Yeah, I know I’m a leftie and would get pounded but oh well! 🙂

    Thanks for arguing with me tho…I appreciate it and I do learn from it….

  33. Got to get some rack.
    Nice try, Sean. You get an “E” for effort.
    Nite y’all.

  34. “No, sean. I’m not saying that at all. The point was that Huckabee was getting it from both sides.
    For whatever reason, known only to Huckabee, he decided to sign the parole recommendation. Dumond walked.
    It turned out to be a terrible decision.
    All the people who were pushing for his release were just as wrong. But, they aren’t running for President.”

    Cool, I agree with that, but on one part I think the right really wanted him more released than any leftie did…I think it was mainly off the lefts radar. I believe that the right went nuts because it had Clinton involved (both as the president and as the victim) that made them go nuts. The Steve Dunleavey calls for his release are insane.

  35. Whereas Congress in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1) has authorized the President “to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolutions 660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677”;

    Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it “supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1),” that Iraq’s repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and “constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,” and that Congress, “supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688”;

    Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

    Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq.
    I’ll throw you a bone, and at least give you this much, so you will have a better understanding, that W didn’t lie to get us into a war, but that others have lied about W, and in so doing, lied to you and convinced you that their lie is true.

  36. Ditto here…sleep well everyone….

  37. Robert D, on December 7th, 2007 at 1:14 am Said:
    Hey sean, read this.
    America’s Standing in the World
    The second article is a bonus. You might think Global Warming is caused by man.

    Hey Robert…sorry I’m late but just happened to stumble on this. Its a report from the nonpartisan Pew Research Project that ran tons of surveys on the worlds perception of America. Really good reading and was presented to Congress several months ago:

    It breaks out in fine detail where anti american sentiment is growing and why.

  38. Henh.
    Sean, glancing over that Pew study, I got a good chuckle for several reasons. First, there is much to refute, based on many different factors on each graph, and secondly, there are too many to deal with.
    Looking at Europe, for example, because I really don’t care that much what some of the other countries dominated by islam have to say. Most of the European countries in that study are socialist countries, but several are breaking away from it, as the election of Merkel and Sarkozy can attest, and the conservatives are leading in the polls in the UK, with David Cameron poised to be the new PM in the UK, and the tories gaining many seats in Parliament. Secular humanism has displaced Christianity in Europe, but there seems to be a change in that regard as well, as it seems most Europeans have not abandoned Christianity, but the church. There is a new type of Christianity gaining in popularity in Europe.
    That so many would be opposed to war, is not surprising, but especially in Europe, as they are solely dependent on oil from the ME, and will put up with the out of control immigration policies of the EU, to satisfy their dark overlords from the ME, so they can have an uninterrupted oil supply.
    Still, it was interesting reviewing what Pew had compiled.

  39. Hey no2liberals…

    But still, its pretty unarguable that America is not liked as much as it was. You mention that there is much to refute. Please provide us with links with statistics or a survey.

    I work a lot overseas…i just got back from a 6 month stint in Mexio City (what a shithole) but I’ve lived in Europe (all over), South Africa, and Brazil. I have never, ever, seen such hatred for us, not just on a government level…but as Americans as citizens. That’s the big surprise for me. The first time around they blamed Bush and republicans. The second time around they blamed the American people for reelecting them.


  40. Hey no2liberals,

    In response to your link.

    My mother is German, my dad an American soldier, old story. I’m Lutheren. I’m very aware of the religious revival that’s going on in europe and in particular Germany. But its not a fundamentalist or evangelical uprising…its more of the hippy dippy “our god is in the garden” kind of revival. I prefer to go to church…they prefer to hang out in a friends garden. I guess I’m old school but I have to go to church.

    I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you waiting on some massive christian revival in europe that would hold to US tenants.

  41. Sean, I’m not that interested in polls and surveys, as they can have kernels of truth in them, but they are just snapshots.
    As I mentioned, France and Germany elected new conservative leadership, who are pro-America, and the UK will soon. In fact, even the current PM of the UK, got into a little tiff with Sarkozy, saying he loved America more than Sarko.
    Much of the popularity aspect is driven by the media, as not everyone goes on the innernut for info. Socialism in the EU is rampant, as you must be aware if you lived there, and the commie groups have done much to shape the anti-war sympathies. What you must stop and consider, is not only how pro-America some of the old Eastern bloc countries are, but also Iraq and Afghanistan, and those are all people who can remember in their life times what it is like to not have freedom and liberty, whereas Old Europe, like many in this country, can’t relate, as they have always had it. Another measure of what America means to the rest of the world is this, you can best judge the health of a nation by the number of people wanting to go there. People are leaving Europe in droves. There was a report a few weeks ago, where it was reported about a half a million people will have left the UK in ’07. People are literally dieing to get here.
    As for people in other countries getting upset because we reelected W…tough noogies! I deal with people from all over the world, but they are capitalist, and not snotty coffee shop intellectuals, and they don’t share that view. I’ve never cared about popularity, so trying to impress a bunch of people that I have no interactions with is trivial to me. What I would find unpleasant, would be to do the things we would have to do to make them like us.
    When those countries show some common sense, and move away from all of the socialistic attitudes and policies, then I will consider getting a new passport. I let mine expire years ago.

  42. sean, you sound much too reasonable to be a full-blown liberal. I think you might be a conservative-in-the-making.
    Stick around here, you show some promise, grasshopper.

  43. I understand, I was just sharing a link that I found interesting, as I don’t think God is dead to most Europeans, as much as the church is.
    The creeping socialism and pc has invaded the churches of Europe, too.

  44. Hey no2liberals,

    Polls and surveys can be lifebread if done correctly. I work a lot with statistics, break evens and market potential, I’m in business development. Don’t be too optimisic in some wide ranging “we love america” change in leadership. Their hardest right is still a moderate in US politics.

    And seriously, from a ground level, so many people have such a negative feeling towards us now compared to 10 years ago. And it has hurt us business wise, especially now in Mexico and LATAM. I have lost lucrative contracts just because the competition was equal but was not American. Freaking Castro (whom I’ve never been the biggest fan, but I’ve never been a fan of isolationism which I though was amazingly stupid) is now some sort of Christ figure with a lot of LATAM’ers.

    Heh Nuke…I started off as independent but consider myself now as moderate. It’s the conservative party that has gone hard right and for me its been the hypocrisy that drove the nail in that coffin. Delay, Craig, Rove, Brownie. I couldn’t stomach it. It’s sad but I have more faith in Larry Flynt to give me the truth than a republican politician.

  45. Here you go Sean, a video dedication.

    Hey…that was actually pretty cool. I checked it with trepidation…and it was actually pretty nice…I’m not a big country fan – and the guy is a Brit! (rock on)..still pretty good.

  46. I can’t help what people of other nations feel or think about us, as we are a sovereign nation, and have to deal with the world in an entirely different way. Personally, I’m more than fed up with the Pax Americana that so many nations, particularly in Europe, have enjoyed at our expense. The British Royal Navy issued a report this week that they couldn’t even respond adequately to a minor regional conflict, and the French defense budget is about 1% of their national budget. The lack of gratitude from Europe, is appalling, and in LA, they have so many problems, deflecting them on us is absurd. Also, the profiteering that France and Germany enjoyed, along with Russia, in Iraq, when UN sanctions were in place, and then to turn around and criticize us, and not join the MNF coalition, still pisses me off.
    I don’t support isolationism either, but neither do I support trading with our sworn enemies, like Fidel. We still have allies in LA, but the way the donks in Congress are going, by stalling free trade agreements with Columbia and Peru, we won’t have them much longer.
    FYI, I was a liberal, years ago, but as I got older and gained experience, I began to change, and was finally just turned away from liberalism entirely, due to it’s constant attacks on traditional American values. I became a conservative in training, when the Horny Hick got elected in ’92.

  47. Dang, Sean…what you must think of me.
    I wouldn’t make a dedication into a booby-trap.
    I love that song and video by Chris Rea. Using the reunification of Germany as the backdrop was a nice touch.

  48. Hey no2liberals,

    Can you post that article on the mass immigration coming from Europe? Talking with my relatives over there (in Germany, England and S. Africa) they are not aware of it. I’m not intending to be a dick, I’m just curious. When I talk to my German relatives, they bitch about the Turks but they’re not moving, S. Africa I dealt with the chicken runs in the early 80’s and then with Mandela in the 90’s. But they mainly calmed down then moved back. What is this mass migration?

  49. I’ll see if I can find it. Thought I had saved it to jkn, but it wasn’t there.

  50. Hey no2liberals,

    I think there’s been way too much play on “who owes what”. For me (and a lot of other businesses, esp. multinationals) its “what can you give me right now”. I’ve always been a 100% believer in free trade and I think that is what can keep us from going into wars in the future. Chinese hate us? Fuck, we’re employing half of their nation to supply Wal-Mart. Why got to war when we’re your main employer?

    Its unfortunate but its….”what can you do for me now” to a degree. Money talks. I am super open to free trade. But not the Halliburton, here’s a sweet deal cuz you have a captive audience kind. That’s one thing that pisses me off on the current regime…free market my ass…its all about their friends…no bid deals…fuck them.

    FYI…sorry for doubting you on the was a lot better and kinda heart warming than i expected….


  51. Found it!

    Oh shit shit shit! I knew this! It’s not what it looks like….its mainly immigrants who have been short time in England being pushed out to other countries and a push by Australia and NZ to pick up natives. A ton of Iraqis have had to come through the UK before going to the US. Its a turnstile program….they stay for a bit in England to get a classification and then are forwarded on….raaaaa….totally forgot about this. It’s actually pretty sweet for the refugees.

  52. The only reason the donks are witholding free trade with Columbia and Peru, is due to uniion pressure. Why Pelosi is pretending to be so loyal to the unions, which only represent 12.5% of the working population, is pure and simple. Campaign dollars. Just like so much of every endeavor, money drives it, especially politics.
    I will say this for the Halliburton situation, the many no-bid deals they got are because there is no other organization that could do what they were capable of doing. I’m sure some body could have started up a company to try and compete, given time, but for what they are capable of doing, with expertise, and in a timely basis, there is no other company. I’m not saying there isn’t something untoward about it, but then, our government, at every level, and on all sides, is rife with it.

  53. I think you might want to read through that article a little more closely.
    I found this revealing:

    There were 316,000 more non-British citizens and 126,000 fewer British citizens in the UK

  54. Sean, you know, there are other threads on this blog.
    /just sayin’

  55. Halliburton/KBR geared up to provide logistical support for the Armed forces as the military was downsized in the early 90’s. The so-called “peace dividend.”
    But, N2l is right. There was (and still is) no American company with the size and expertise to do what they do, on-demand, and in a timely fashion.
    We have a choice of having the military do for themselves, or having contractors fill in the gaps.

  56. Thanks, nuke.
    I had forgotten about the downsizing of the military in the 90’s, and the rise of the contractors.

  57. Night y’all.

  58. Concerning Halliburton…there are TONS of other companies that can do what they are doing. Much better in fact, but a lot of them are foreign nationals. A no bid is exactly that…they didn’t even try to find other bidders. No one was allowed. I know for a fact various oil companies that could have bidded on oil specific contracts. H swooped in and had carte blanche. And worse yet they LIED on what it would cost and have the most amazing overruns in history.

    I am for free market. Halliburton is anything but:

    You give someone exclusive rights and they will run up the expenses. Here it becomes disgusting.

    No bid – anti democracy and anti business. Pro cronyism. And boy did they take advantage of it.

    On the British migration…126K migrating is normal…check any of the historical data for migration. 126K which is less than .0001 of the population is not a massive outflux.

  59. Oh hey guys…night…

    no2liberals…what other threads? (sorry…idiot here)

  60. Now wait a minute.
    I was just closing windows when I saw this.
    When has the U.S. taken bids from foreign companies for supporting our military? Why would they? And further, are these companies you mention, that could have done the same work, were they from countries that were part of the coalition? If not, screw them, and the countries they come from.
    In case you hadn’t heard, Halliburton is not really an American company any more, they have moved their HQ to Dubai. The business climate in this country, since the donks took over, the lack of drilling allowed in this country, and the opportunities overseas, are the reason. I was referring mostly to the the other logistical support Halliburton provides our military, the chow halls, and transport.
    Now, I’m out.

  61. […] Pingback by Huckabee’s Willie Horton? « nuke’s […]

  62. hit the home tab up top….
    See y’all next time.

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