Update: Welcome BBC Readers …………………………………………………………..>>return to BBC
Update: “Reporting For Duty”… The Kerry Apology
“Crazy” and “despicable” are the exact terms used by the junior Senator from Massachusetts to describe Republican critics of his self-described ‘botched joke’. If you’ve seen the tape or read the transcript, who are you going to believe, Kerry or your lying eyes?
Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs – “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps.
That how Cortney Fielding reported it in the Pasadena Star-News. She was there. She saw and heard it as it happened. There is no indication, at all, that this was a joke, nor did the reaction of those in attendance indicate that they were hearing a joke.
So, at least a few of Kerry’s own supporters must be both crazy and despicable. Or not. Maybe the “mixture of laughter and gasps” indicates that there are still a few democrats out there who understand that our bravest serving in the military are the only thing standing between our liberty and the designs of our enemies. It is still a dangerous world. That’s not crazy, that’s reality.
In the 2004 campaign, Kerry said that his policy in fighting the War on Terror would be better, smarter, more sensitive, and would pass the global test. No one in the MSM ever got a specific answer to exactly what that meant — and, I don’t recall if he was ever even asked the question. You may recall that Kerry’s response to the ‘global test’ remark sounds eerily familiar to his response to his current situation:
Asked during a town hall meeting in Hampton to explain what he meant, the Massachusetts senator said, “It’s almost sad; it’s certainly pathetic, because all they can do is grab a little phrase and try to play a game and scare Americans.”
Perhaps now, the MSM will use this gaffe as an opportunity to find out what the dems actually propose to do regarding the serious issues of the day, instead of rushing headlong into giving Kerry yet another pass. Call me a dreamer.
Related: RedState: Never-Ending Smear; ABC: November Gift?; Tapper: Adding Fuel to Fire; HangRight: Blowing 2004, 2006
Update at 16:35. GCP pundit”Mom of Girls” sends this message back to the junior Senator from Massachusetts: (via drudge) Hot Air has it, too.
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Filed under: military, News and politics | Tagged: 'War on Terrorism', Election 2006, military, News and politics |
no2liberals
el nuko
Robert D
swampie
Nuke's 
Oh, yeah, you’re a dreamer all right. There is no way in hell that any of the media is going to press any Democrat on specific programs, not that they would be able to understand the programs if one were actually offered.
Fox bimbo this morning said something about Bush not having served in the military while Kerry did. Hello, Fox Bimbo, then I suppose there are a helluva lot of people not serving in the military who are wearing uniforms, carrying weapons, and getting shot at in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yup. the 155th from my hometown just got back after a year in Iraq. I’m sure they would be happy to know they did not actually serve in the real army.
Yeah, a local high school coach is currently not in the “real” military too. Last year, same high school, a history teacher was busily serving in the “not really” branch of military service.
Great title!
Watch – since Ford of TN has asked for an apology – Kerry will issue one – I expect Durbin Tears (TM).
I’ve always thought Harold Ford would beat out Barack Obama in the dem beauty contest if he would just smile more. Heh.
Durbin Tears™. Love it.
G’day Nuke!..if thats his idea of a “joke” he needs a new comedy
writer!..sheesh..do the rationalizations EVER end? 🙂 (dont answer that!) 🙂
Mornin’ Angel.
good to see you
I’m staying in school for this reason…as soon as I get my Masters Degreen in a semester I’m moving to Canada! It’s a euphamism to say that intelligent and patriotic people want to fight to protect the country. I’m sure they’d rather not be in harms way, especially in such a pointlessly botched operation Iraqi Freedom!
It’s no secret that the poor and uneducated end up serving in the military because they don’t have much else. It sure ain’t the rich wanting to kill GOOBAGOOBA for 1500 dollars a month.
Oops, the above assumes you believe the GOP interpretation of his joke.
Do you people not actually see it or are you just too wound up by republican zeal and propeganda? Of course it was a joke. He never said your soldiers were dumb. He was referring to the idiots who landed the soldiers in the Iraqi quagmire. He was referring to the fact that “Dubya” and his cohorts have landed your brave, educated and intelligent military in a war that their president cannot get them out of again. He will ride out this war to the end of his presidency and leave it to his unfortunate successor to try to find some way to take your soldiers home and leave a stable country behind. He has not got the faintest idea how to do it himself.
Gentlemen: The tape and the transcript are linked in the article.
You may read/view them at your leisure, or simply hold on to your prejudice.
Why do you continually confuse statements about the moronic Whitehouse personnel with comments about the National Guard or the army? Kerry was again referring to Bush who, while he may have worn the uniform, did not end up in a war but eagerly sent the poorest most disenfranchised people of the USA to be used as cannon fodder in two wars, thousands of miles from home. Kerry would obviously not make adverse comments about the military he served with distinction himself. It is Bush who is insulting the military by assuming that they are stupid enough not to understand Kerry’s comments and to listen to electioneering propaganda.
I listened to the tape. I’ve read the transcript. He flubbed what was meant to be a joke.
You can clearly hear him hesitate, words coming out awakwardly before he even makes the comment about Iraq. People respond by laughing and gasping, yes. Why do you think that means they knew they weren’t hearing a joke?
That’s what normal people do upon hearing an “edgy” or even offensive joke – laugh and/or gasp.
I lean more Democratic (though I think Kerry is useless) yet he clearly just put his foot in his damn mouth in a potentially disasterous way. But his speechwriters would never have let him intentionally bag on the troops in such a blatant way, because that’s political suicide.
He never DID bag on the troops. He never referred to the troops at all. HE WAS REFERRING TO DUBYA AND HIS COMPLICIT IDIOTS. The republicans are trying to cloud the issue to win votes, just like they did when they accused Kerry of flip-flopping during the presidential. They just know that there are enough idiots out there who will fall in behind the republicans without checking the facts. A lot of them see a man who has done more damage to the military with a futile war than anyone else in the world supposedly defending them against an unwarranted attack. If he wants to defend the military against attacks he should take them home.
gary said:
but eagerly sent the poorest most disenfranchised people of the USA to be used as cannon fodder in two wars, thousands of miles from home
poorest and most disenfranchised? Care to back that statement up?
Just check the stats Nuke. And stop trying to deflect from the issue. This blog is about whether Kerry insulted the troops, am I right? Even if he had insulted them, he didn’t send them to their deaths. I remember Bush on the deck of a warship announcing to jubilation that the war was won. A lot more troops have been killed by hostile fire since the “End of the war” than were killed during the war. This shows how much of a propaganda cow Dubya is. Even HE is not so stupid as to think Kerry was insulting the troops. He just knows that there are a lot of voters just that dumb. Just look at the last two presidential election results.
gary said:
Just check the stats Nuke
In your previous post you maligned conservative voters with the statement, “there are enough idiots out there who will fall in behind the republicans without checking the facts”.
I simply asked you to check your facts. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the education level, family background, and overall high quality of our men and women in the Armed Services. Of course, “disenfranchisement” speaks to the ability to cast an unimpeded vote. And, the only evidence of disenfranchisement in the last two elections came from your side impeding the ability of military people to cast their absentee ballots.
“A lot more troops have been killed by hostile fire since the “End of the war” than were killed during the war. This shows how much of a propaganda cow Dubya is”
You have combined a true statement with a conclusion that is… interesting. What exactly is a “propaganda cow?”
“He just knows that there are a lot of voters just that dumb. Just look at the last two presidential election results.”
I look at the results of the last two Presidential elections and come to the exact opposite conclusion regarding the wisdom of the voters.
Nice chatting with you Gary.
Stop by any time.
>nuke
I’ll be back. Nice talking to you too.
I see we have guests today.
Let’s see, President Bush didn’t say the “war was won.” he said “Mission Accomplished,” which it was, as the removal of Sodom Whosesane and his mass grave providers had been “Accomplished.”
If he was joking…about anything, where was the laughter? He was speaking to a group of adoring leftards anyway, why did he see the need to inspire his base, and instead focus on the promoting the dhimmicrat agenda? Well, on second thought, that’s all the dhimmi’s have, that they can publicly state, “They Hate Bush” and “YOU Should Too” is there campaign, as they can’t mention their real agenda of more taxes, cut and run from Iraq, increased social programs, and the return of gun control measures.
The fact that under President Bush, over 50million people in Iraq and Afghanistan now have freely elected governments, and there have been NO terrorist attacks in this country, since 9-11, speaks more of his abilities and stewardship, than Senator Gigolo and his insults and self-adoring elitism.
Our military as cannon fodder? They are uneducated, unfortunates, without any opportunities? I call BS! Not only from my own experience, but from other sources that have looked at this very topic. I entered the USAF with two years of college, got out with an Honorable Discharge, and used my GI Bill bennies to finish my undergraduate and graduate programs.
If Senator Gigolo was really interested in inspiring attendees at Pasadena Comm. College, who I’m certain he views as lesser beings, as he was a C student at an Ivy League university…don’t you know, then he should have left President Bush out of his comments, and instead used his own formula for success, to inspire the attendees. “Fake your way through life, and marry rich, then, trade up.”
Some references for y’all:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm
It is extensively researched, and the data is presented clearly in summary and tables. I doubt any of you supporting the Kerry joke kinard will review it, as it destroys one of your talking points.
BTW, I’m a vet that is offended, as I know that even if it was a failed joke, which I don’t truly believe, considering the jokester’s history of denigrating the military for the past 35 years, and the dhimmicrats in general, the real joke is the dhimmicrats provided the Republicans with a special October surprise.
This whole issue would vanish if Senator Kerry would simply own up and say, yes – I did trip over my tongue and mispoke, but I am sorry. He can not now claim it was some king of “joke” aimed at the President. Why doesn’t he apologize? I think that is an important question to be answered. IS he so motivated by pride in that he won’t admit to his obvious fopah or is it because, like many other democrats, he is overtaken by hate? It saddens me to hear responsible members of one party referring to those in the other as imbiciles, liars, and cowards. The people are getting fed up with both sides. All of this nonsense must come to an end.
Our Troops Get It!
/God Bless Them All
Joke or no joke, the fact remains that there really are people out there stupid enough to believe that the USA is “the worlds greatest democracy” and some of them are happy to put their lives on the line to defend the right of fat businessmen to make money out of their actions. John Kerry was apparently the best the Democrats had to offer against a president who says things like “The members of the United States military are plenty smart and they are plenty brave”. They sure are plenty S.M.R.T those US politicians
Ahh! Another that’s too smart for the rest of us.
Yeah, President Bush defeated the best the dhimmicrats has to offer, the candidate that said, “Can I get one of them hunting licenses here?”
Yep, he was the best of the worst.
It must really suck to be as smart as Senator Gigolo.
Kerry has a history since his college days of talking negatively about the armed forces. I remember watching him on TV when I was a kid. That’s why these remarks hit they way they did.
He did serve though, unlike some of the people of his generation.
What is so sacred about the armed forces anyway? Here is a random statement from some guy who served in the 3rd Marine Division in ‘Nam (in reference to Democratic contender Tammy Duckworth who lost her legs in a helicoptor accident in Iraq)
“I give Duckworth a lot of credit for protecting my freedom. I’m sorry for her loss”
I mean.. in what way was she protecting ANYONES freedom? She was doing a job, sure.. but “protecting freedom”?!! C’mon! It’s getting into Tooth Fairy time here. If there had been no invasion of Iraq, would his level of personal freedom have been any higher or lower…?
*Sigh*
I’m sorry that you don’t get it Gareth…maybe some day you will.
Oh I get it all right. I’m more than happy for the west to try an secure energy resources as the emerging economies of China and India look to get their hands on them.. But I have no truck with Americans getting all gay about the threat from “terror” (I mean, how can you have a war on an emotion anyway!!).
More people die from eating junk food every day than they do in a whole year from terrorist attacks.. surely it would be better if NATO bombed Hamburglar and hunted out the elusive Colonel Sanders from his hideout in the caves of Afghanistan.. If of course the intention was to save lives that is.
Clearly you don’t get a great deal.
I like your level of debate.. considering you are called “no2liberals” that is no real suprise.. meaning as it does that you are saying no to Adam Smith (liberal economics) and no to the freedom for a person to live their life how they want without inteference from government (liberal social policy).
What perchance should a reader like myself be “getting”?
Oh…this is a debate?
I thought you were ‘black helicopter’ spotting.
As for “traditional liberalism,” I have no problem with it. As for “contemporary liberals,” they are a group I consider a greater threat to the American way of life, than Al Qaida.
As for what you are or are not getting, you must first try and get outside yourself. I’m a laissez-faire capitalist, that doesn’t have time for raising the level of awareness, of someone else’s child.
OOPS!
Markets about to close, playtime is over.
See y’all down the road.
Just got an email.
http://www.redstate.com/stories/breaking_news/breaking_kerry_pulls_list_of_democrats_hes_campaigned_for_from_his_website
Hi. I’m back from exploiting the masses for capitalistic greed (making a buck). Did I miss anything?
I hope not.
Transportations were down(little surprised) but the DOW wasn’t down by much.
There’s anew RNC video over at Hot Air, and some other good stuff.
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/11/01/video-new-rnc-ad-calls-on-kerry-to-apologize/
Hey Nuke!
Check thy email.
Oh…and jokester has issued an apology…sort of.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/203411.php
n2l: checketh thy email
Okay, then!
Time for a little siesta before dinner, so I will be refreshed for the Fresno vs. Boise State game at 7p.m.
Henh…one last thing, and I really need some quiet.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/11/jack_and_jim_we.html
#27 Gareth.
Thanks for that comment. You’re close.
Certainly American administrations, and Western governments, including your own, for the last 30 years or so have defined maintaining access to the energy resources of the Persian Gulf as in the “vital national interest.”, as well as the economic interests of Western Civilization. And I, like yourself, am not opposed to acting in national, as well as Western interests in maintaining said access.
Moreover, I would agree that the current war against islamism is badly mis-named, misunderstood, and mis-underestimated (sorry about that GWB-ism)by much of the western world. But, getting all “gay” about it? Well, now, let’s not go overboard.
I sense that you do not take the threat of radical islam seriously. Pity. Your country already feels the internal pressure of these socially corrosive parasites.
Thanks for the hat tip.
Kerry’s “apology”
“I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended,” Kerry said in a statement.
Hey Nuke.
Here we go again, the rhetoric, the name
calling and the denials.
That is never a debate, just a session
of talking points from not the other
side. More like the enemy.
That is never a debate, just a session
of talking points from not the other
side. More like the enemy.
I don’t want to consider them my enemy. But they just keep pushing my buttons,and acting like an enemy.
Kerry’s “apology”
“I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended,” Kerry said in a statement.
About 30+ years too late.
Good to see y’all. Don’t be strangers. 🙂
Kerry’s entire career is a joke, and much like his dissembling after his insulting comments to our military (past and present), he’s always been a liar. Let’s take a look back, at his first of three purple hearts…shall we?
NUKE, CONGRATS! Your Post on FrankinKerry is one of the fastest growing at wordpress today.
How many Democrats actually believe word for word what Kerry said about the US military?
Who wants to be an honest liberal for us?
Post here and at Sadbastards.wordpress.com
The fact that left wants to sell that it is even acceptable joking about soldiers “being stuck” in Iraq is pathetic. Let’s accept their excuse – that this is a botched joke – that is even worse than what he said. Hilarity about men in harms’ way is the prerogative of the tyrant and intellectually vacant.
Very funny. Ha Ha. John Kerry. Hilarious. “Botched Joke” is a caption for a picture of John Kerry.
If you liked Durbin Tears (TM) you’ll love Botched-Joker John (TM)
And for any liberal lingering – the reason even your own party did a collective eye-roll over this gaffe, is Kerry made his political fortune bashing his ‘comrades in arms’ those sorry Ghenghis Khans… and still thinks it’s fashionable to condemn the military. In his cocktail circuit it is common speech to describe the military as neanderthals.
We believe it is a slam against the military because it is. And your joke theory – is a joke.
Thanks Mick
Kathy.
I love it when you get angry.
I really do.
Heh.
Kathy was angry?
I thought she sounded hot!
From Ace of Spades Hq:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/203421.php
Nuke – then you’d love it a lot this election cycle.
I personally want to thank Kerry and his water-toters.. by encouraging the ‘can’t you take a joke’ meme – they’ve reminded that American public that handing democrats power over the military is like giving a toddler a handgun.
I don’t know if I like Kathy’s analogy. Would that be a semi-auto or a revolver?
/henh
Hey nuke, check this ‘bringing out the dead’ update.
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/paulseale/2006/nov/01/pubdef_net_4_acorn_workers_indicted_in_kc_voter_fraud_in_missouri#comment
The San Francisco Chronicle/SFGate, (which I used to work for) have interviewed typical Bay Area voters on John Kerry’s comments. They all agree with him, and it was the truth, not a joke.
Kathy is right, Kerry has been saying negative things about the US military for more than 30 years.
*sniff-sniff*
A Dear John letter for Senator Gigolo.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/888glctv.asp
The ACORN story is ripe, low hanging fruit.
We talked about it a couple of times over the last two weeks.
But, I don’t know if it has any legs to it.
The Kerry non-apology needs at least one more day in the news cycle. The Winter-Soldier is getting the kind of butt-stomping that John O’Neill and all Viet Nam vets are deservedly enjoying.
To All Viet Nam veterans, it’s been a long time coming…
“WELCOME HOME”
And, my friends, that is going to be my blog report for tomorrow.
G’nite
>nuke
Nitey-nite…El Nuko.
kerry is a republican plant. face it, he’s a skull and crossbones croney and nothing but an opportunist. the war is wrong, period, but the troops need support – they got sent over there. bring ’em home. there’s enough soldiers now using their rights who are speaking out and some are refusing to fight because IT’S A LARK!!!!
Has everybody failed to realize that under Bush’s watch the military has had to lower standards in order to fill the recruiting quotas of all branches? Regardless of the remarks made by Kerry, joking or not, Bush’s poorly planned fiasco in Iraq has done quite a bit to undermine the effectiveness of our armed forces. So whether or not you agree with or want to vilify Kerry, his comments are not that far off the mark.
When the military lowers its standards, it is in effect taking in people who did not perform well in school or civilian life and have turned to the armed forces as a last resort. So therefore, we do find some truth to Kerry’s comment that not doing well in school can find you stuck in Iraq.
In closing, as a veteran of the U.S. Army I do support the troops and understand that the majority of people serving our country are there by choice and not just because they had no other option. But the fact remains that we are taking in plenty of people who in the past would not have been eligible for enlistment due to low test scores or poor academic performance.
From Gateway Pundit:
For HV, it may be a ‘Lark’ to you, and you are entitled to your opinion on what is right or wrong, but saying Senator Gigolo is a republican plant is completely false.
As a veteran, and an avid supporter of our troops, and their mission, I pay close attention to what the troops are saying on the innernut, as well as in person. I see them at the airports, thank them and shake their hands. The vast majority believe, strongly, in what they are doing, and is the right thing, and that they are making a difference. To just bring them home, would be the greatest insult they could ever receive, and would impune the sacrifices their fallen brothers and sisters have paid. Whats more, to cut and run, as you and the dhimmicrats suggest, would guarantee that the status of the U.S., in the eyes of so many around this globe that may need our help in the future, they would know that the U.S. doesn’t have the will to stick it out, when things don’t go well. If you have found in your life, that it’s okay to just quit when you are faced with a difficult task, you shouldn’t automatically expect that the majority of people share your outlook.
I never give up…ever. If someone smacks me in the mouth, I smack them ten times. If they hit me with a bat, I will run over them with a truck. If they shoot me, they better kill me, as I will make them die screaming. Some of us fight back, especially when our enemy only respects force, glorifies in martydom, and views negotiations as weakness.
according to his staff, his prepared remarks demonstrate what he meant to say: “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.” Also overlooked is the fact that Kerry’s remark came after several one-liners, including one in which he personally accused Bush of “liv[ing] in a state of denial.
You can believe that lie and obfuscation by Kerry and his handlers, if you want, but consider the source…he has given us much historical data, to prove he is a pathological liar.
He meant it, even if he didn’t say it the way he intended. His leftard cheering section don’t see what the problem is, according to them he should never apologize for telling the truth. So he didn’t apologize, he gave a written non-apology apology…kind of like Senator Dick(less) Durbin(the turban).
Yep. His actions and words have been remarkably congruent re citizen soldiers over the past 30 years. And I don’t mean that in a positive way.
Wow, you guys (the ‘Republicans’ on this forum, that is). Look, it’s simple. Kerry goofed. Yes he goofed in a rather big way. Ask any Dem and they’ll say that they probably groaned (at the least) when they heard this the first time.
What I don’t get is where was your rage when ‘W’ was making jokes about NOT finding WMD (THAT, BTW was the reason we went into Iraq. Not to ‘get’ SH, for we seemed mighty pleased with him during the Regan years, but that he now had WMD’s (even though Mr Blicks had already come up empty handed)). Where was your rage and indignation, ladies and gentlemen? Just because he’s a Republican does NOT give him carte blanche. Until you show that you are all free thinkers, you will only get laughs from those of us who really are.
I am no fan of Kerry’s (though I used to be) and I am certainly no fan of ‘W’. Both are liars. I will not cite facts that you can certainly look up yourselves.
EVERYONE supports our troops. To question the stupidity of the war is not only right, it’s every American’s RIGHT and DUTY! The war was and is wrong. How do we make it right, I don’t know. But I do know that this administration has botched it up so badly that someone else better do something quick. Ask yourselves, why is it that the majority of vets from Iraq who have gone into politics are siding with the Democrats?
Don’t spout off on how patriotic you are that when you see Vets you shake their hands and say ‘thank you’. That is the LEAST that you can do. You want me to be proud of you? Volunteer at the Vet clinic or hospital, offer support, give them a discount at your business, do something to help them integrate back into society and or their families. Help the mother or father who’s alone with the kids and trying to deal with everything and the fear of losing a loved one because their spouse is in Iraq. THEN I’ll be proud of you.
And briefly to n2liberals, there is a definition of insane that goes as follows: ‘Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result’. Sometimes, you have to give up, realize that you’re wrong, and forge a new path. Otherwise, you’ll just end up walking off that cliff.
Actually, Liberal, the reasons for going to Iraq had very little to do with WMD. You might want to review your facts there. Everyone most certainly does not support the troops. Kerry does not support/has not supported the troops.
As for your “suggestions” about how N2L can show his support, I believe you missed the part where N2L is a veteran and knows very well about family and deployment.
There’s an Iraqi vet on television right now saying that he knows everything he needs to know about ol’ Kerry over the characterization of American troops as terrorists breaking into Iraqi homes and terrorizing the inhabitants and if Kerry is such a big “man”, why can’t he at least apologize in some form rather than a press release?
/Probably because it’s so hard to fake sincerity. Or maybe he is afraid he’ll misread his apology.
Liberal your post in 65 is why you will remain in the minority. Fifty one per cent of the people can not be as stupid as you without completely debunking the whole idea of natural selection. Simple concept – if you want to support the troops, you must support their mission – and yet I’m sure that just bounced off that inert surface you call a brain.
Your compassion for the troops – as you imply ‘those poor witless creatures’, is sadly misplaced. Do you know the re-enlistment statistics?
The war was not wrong. 9/11 was wrong. Saddam’s gasing of the Kurds was wrong. He left Milosevik in the dust on the concept of genocide – BTW, when did Yugoslavia attack us and where are their WMD?
You want to help ‘integrate soldiers’. I understand by that statement exactly why you find no offense in John Kerry’s ignoble statement. You share his loathesome arrogance that your self-gratifying virtue some how makes you superior to the military. Mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest liberal of them all? Where’s a poison apple when you need one? We’ve been trying to integrate liberals into the society for the last forty years – and they are stuck on stupid. If you turn over that placard that says “no blood for oil” you’ll see that what we really read when we see that sign is “Protestor has shit for brains”.
And where do you get that the vast majority of vets are siding with democrats? Do you realize that the military vote is so lopsided Republican that is why Al Gore fought to suppress the military ballots in FL in 2000? We saw from that one act alone how very deeply democrats care about our military. That ‘veteran’ in McCaskill’s ads is hiding. Caught in a lie, methinks. Which ‘veterans’ – any real ones? And for every Shehan that glows in the media there are literally thousands of military moms standing in the shadows who are rightfully proud of their children. It’s a disgrace whom the media glorifies.
As to repeating the same behavior expecting a different outcome – I agree with you – so why don’t you take a lesson from your own words and stop fighting Vietnam?
This military is all volunteer. All courageous. All intelligent. And there because they chose it. God Bless them.
For the record they are far better than you with your false patriotism and your phony compassion. Save it.
The public has been duped again, and don’t even realize it. Yes America you have been collectively BENT OVER — the worse thing, you did not realize it.This is not about Kerry or Iraq, it is about your point of focus. What the hell is this guy talking about, I,ll get to the point, since the Kerry remark, does anybody comment on Foley? —NO, no they they don’t, and this is exactly what the Rep party wants you to focus on, Kerry’s remark and not Foley problems.The larger the battle the bigger the deception — the rules of WAR also apply to politics. November is upon us, the gloves are off, Kerry makes a grammatical error and is demonized — and the plan worked, took the American mind off of Iraq, the economy, health cost, cost of fuel.Geoge W is kicking back playen a little golf, by God you just gave the guy a three day vacation and don’t even know it.
Heh, good one Kathy. Oh, BTW, I just added y’all to the blogroll. Great read.
I’ve gotta get out of here for a few hours, folks, to go make a buck or two. If VIA comes by while I’m gone, tell him “no swinging from the chandeliers”.
/Oh, dhb547. Thanks for sharing.
Yes dhb547 – Kerry’s foot in mouth disease is a Rovian plot to take the country’s mind off the more important issue of nasty emails with pages.
After all – the quality of the military and support for the GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR and counterterrorism against people who want to kill us are nothing to the Foley emails. Nothing.
/sarcasm off.
(This guy was probably out shouting “IT’S ALL ABOUT SEX” during the Clinton impeachment – you know when Clinton purjured himself about having sex with a 19 year old intern (exactly one year younger than the page addressed in Foley’s emails)
Dhb – your brain has taken a little vacation and you don’t know it.
Got some kinda gay problem there, DHB?
I don’t know what it is with those crazy Democrats. They either love gay sex or they hate it. Wish they’d make up their minds.
Thanks nuke – I’ll add you to ours – great blog! But where did you find all these moonbats?
…If you build it, they will come, heh™
Kathy: John Kerry has been in seclusion for the last couple of days. Moonbats crop up on Nuke’s blog. Coincidence?
Emotion= votes, thanks Kathy for supporting my premise, by the way you can stand up know!
Swampwoman – they don’t have a standard on gays or anything else. It’s simple really, anything republican is bad.
I found it interesting that Rpr. Gerry Studds (D) who died a few days ago – at the age of 69 (God is funny sometimes)admitted to a gay affair with an underage page and was re-elected four more times. And Foley sent some emails. Clinton at least knew it was wrong enough to lie about it.
{Psst! Does dhb think he makes sense?}
ROFL. Yep, Foley never actually committed any crime. Maybe that’s his crime. He wasn’t gay enough.
ACORN workers indicted in 35,000 questionable (fraudulent) registrations. From Gateway Pundit via GCP. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/11/missouri-acorn-workers-indicted-35000.html
I’ve been wondering if that basement is getting crowded. They had Howard Dean in it, with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, and now they’ve added John Kerry.
(I’ll admit, I thought Dean was in Rahm Emanuel’s trunk – but since so many prominent dems have gone underground, I assume they needed a larger space.)
But with the addition of Kerry – it must be getting crowded down there. 😉
I did a post a few days ago on the years of ACORN malfeasance. I want to know why they still have access to voter registration anywhere and I want a Federal investigation.
http://www.workingpsychology.com/numbertactics.html,
I’ll amend my last post. Any room with Kerry in it is crowded – even when he is all by himself. 😉
And any room with dhb in it is empty. LOL.
Here’s a joke just for you:
nuke, you’re on our blogroll, don’t be a stranger.
Dang!
A moonbat wearing an asshat shows up, and I’m busy being a capitalist.
No need to address any of the finer(?) points directed at me, as Kathy and Swampie were so kind in attempting to enlighten them/they/it.
As for what else I do in support of our troops, you can only guess…it’s not about me, but them and their families, and the service and sacrifices they make for us.
What, out oppressing the proletariat again, and we weren’t invited?
Oh, dang. I am a proletariat. Never mind.
Who cares what John Kerry says? He’s not in charge, nor will he ever be. How about some criticism for Bush’s policy, which is “keep shooting and hope that things get better”. How about demands for apologies from Bush for lying about the reasons we are in Iraq, over and over again (remember “they attacked us on 9/11”, “WMDs”, “freeing the Iraqi people”, etc. Bush has been destroying this country for 6 years now; I would give a monkey a chance to run it rather than let Bush “finish the job”, because at least a monkey would have a chance at stumbling on a better solution. Bush will just keep doing the same stupid moves over and over again, trying to fight guerilla warfare in a civil war situation without enough troops….
What was the joke? BTW-Real liberals know that John Kerry voted for the war in Iraq. So he read the same reports Bush did.
Are you a “C” student like John Kerry?
ROFL. My goodness, lots of hyperbole there. How about coming up with a cogent argument; either there are too many guns and shooting or not enough guns and shooting. Run along now and write a paragraph that makes sense, Mikehawk, that’s a good boy. And tell us what your qualifications are for the criticisms, as well. Which war college did you attend again?
Mikehawk, you may want to read your DNC talking points again. Never did anybody claim that “Iraq attacked us” although now that you mentioned it, they did fire on those enforcing the “no fly zone” several times.
SwampWoman, you depanced Mikehawk. I don’t think he will be brave enough to talk back. Man-O-man you are good!
heh, ain’t it the truth.
Mikehawk, what has President Bush done to destroy this country, exactly. Not your opinion, or what you heard some dhimmicrat hack say, but a variable fact, that he is destroying this country? Could you mean because he didn’t accept or sign the Kyoto Accord? Nope, that can’t be it, as his predecessor, President BJ didn’t even forward it to the Senate. Could it be he is destroying this country by poorly managing the economy? Nope, that can’t be it, with very low unemployment, strong growth, confident investors, and more entrepeneurs willing to take risks with their capital, because of a stable business environment, and lower taxes, so their risk reward isn’t confiscated, and they get to keep more of their own money, or they can reinvest in their businesses, hire more employees, increase inventories, etc.
I’m truly puzzled, as to what President Bush has done to destroy this country?
As for Iraq, while you think it is stupid to show determination in the face of adversity, I don’t, as many others don’t either. You must be a quitter, and don’t believe in anything or in anything of value enough to you worth fighting for.
As for the troop levels in Iraq, I’m sure you haven’t heard this, as you are unable to acknowledge the wisdom President Bush possesses, that you don’t, so I will put in bold letters.
President Bush has stated repeatedly, that he listens to his Commanders in Iraq, and it is they who have stated repeatedly, that they don’t need additional troops. The President has enough wisdom to know, that his well trained and militarily educated Commanders, who are actually in Iraq, understand the needs and wants of our forces better, than he does.
How many War Colleges have you attended, mikehawk?
I have criticized President Bush numerous times over the last six years, but not over the same issues as you. We also refer to different sources for our info, and I’m aware that there are improvements being made in Iraq, along with the negative we hear on LameStream media. It’s just the LameStream media only focuses on the negative.
Dear Jon Carry…
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Wow, you all are so nice. Thanks. It’s nice to know that people can discuss things without getting all huffy. Hmmm, who to respond to first, though. Kathy was the most hateful response, so I guess I respond to her first.
A quickie first, though. You really need to look up some facts. Lewinsky was 22 years old at the time. In every state of the union, that constitutes an adult. Anyone under the age of 18 is not. Shame on you for even suggesting that this is in any way comprable. Statutory rape is repugnant, no matter who the perp is. Period.
Now. Sadly, you get some things wrong in your post. So, let me clear this up for you, ok?
You wrote ‘Simple concept – if you want to support the troops, you must support their mission – and yet I’m sure that just bounced off that inert surface you call a brain.’
A sorry insult, me dear. I hate to shake you faith in truisms, but your statement is just plain false. Our troops do not decide what their mission is. It is decided for them. I don’t have to agree with bad military planning to support the troops. I support our troops, whether you choose to believe it or not. I find the logic behind the war to be flawed at best (OT: and yes, to another poster, I have the transcripts from the UN in regards to why we went to war in Iraq. It most certainly WAS about WMD. Check your facts and stop making them up). Have we accomplished our mission in Iraq? No. Not in any way. Will we? I don’t know. I hope that we can turn this thing around, but we’re going to need a LOT of help. And how do you get no caring about our troops from someone who says ‘bring the troops home and get them out of harms way’?
You wrote:
‘Your compassion for the troops – as you imply ‘those poor witless creatures’, is sadly misplaced. Do you know the re-enlistment statistics?’
Uh, sorry. I never wrote that never even came close to implying that.
You wrote:
‘The war was not wrong. 9/11 was wrong. Saddam’s gasing of the Kurds was wrong. He left Milosevik in the dust on the concept of genocide – BTW, when did Yugoslavia attack us and where are their WMD?’
Well, we disagree. I can tell you this. Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Get over that. I never said anything about the FORMER Yugoslavia, and, if you remember, when Saddam gassed all those Kurds, there was one country who blocked the UNSC resolution against Iraq. What about his gasing of the Iranians, and vice versa? Why don’t we all talk about that as well?
You wrote:
‘You want to help ‘integrate soldiers’. I understand by that statement exactly why you find no offense in John Kerry’s ignoble statement. You share his loathesome arrogance that your self-gratifying virtue some how makes you superior to the military. Mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest liberal of them all? Where’s a poison apple when you need one? We’ve been trying to integrate liberals into the society for the last forty years – and they are stuck on stupid. If you turn over that placard that says “no blood for oil” you’ll see that what we really read when we see that sign is “Protestor has shit for brains”.’
Sadly, by your words, you understand nothing about my statement. The idea of intigrating soldiers back into society is normal for any soldiers who have been in the combat arena. Why? Because combat is such a high stress, life or death struggle, that it puts a lot of things that society holds dear into perspective. That, in and of itself is not bad (placing true perspective, that is). The problem is when you have to come back and try and function in that type of world again. You, the soldier, are not the same as when you left, though most of the people left behind while you were in combat haven’t changed nearly as much as you have. It’s not easy, to say the least. Some need therapy, some need just a holding hand. Some need to learn how to interact with their spouses again, and vice versa. In other words, intergrating back into society.
You wrote:
‘And where do you get that the vast majority of vets are siding with democrats? Do you realize that the military vote is so lopsided Republican that is why Al Gore fought to suppress the military ballots in FL in 2000? We saw from that one act alone how very deeply democrats care about our military. That ‘veteran’ in McCaskill’s ads is hiding. Caught in a lie, methinks. Which ‘veterans’ – any real ones? And for every Shehan that glows in the media there are literally thousands of military moms standing in the shadows who are rightfully proud of their children. It’s a disgrace whom the media glorifies.’
Maybe you should have re-read my post a couple of times before posting. What I wrote was this, and I quote “Ask yourselves, why is it that the majority of vets from Iraq who have gone into politics are siding with the Democrats?” I’ll repeat the important phrase: “WHO HAVE GONE INTO POLITICS”. Got it?
You wrote:
‘As to repeating the same behavior expecting a different outcome – I agree with you – so why don’t you take a lesson from your own words and stop fighting Vietnam?’
What the heck this is supposed to mean? I’ve no idea. I never mentioned Viet’Nam.
You wrote”
‘This military is all volunteer.All courageous. All intelligent. And there because they chose it. God Bless them.
I never said they weren’t. Maybe you were blinded by your hatred of someone you don’t even know? Just a supposition.
You wrote:
‘For the record they are far better than you with your false patriotism and your phony compassion. Save it.’
You don’t know me. You have no idea who I am. So, there is no record to be made. I do know that a partiot of the USA is one who is a free thinker who can debate, listen to well reasoned arguments, asses their position, and change should the argument be so compelling. Sadly, yours does not come close to that criteria.
To swampwoman. You are right. I did not know that n2l was a vet. However, I do stand by my original statement. If he put it out there about shaking vets hands (to show how patriotic he was, assumedly), then why not put out the other stuff as well, like helping the families, etc? No one wants to know the least we can do, we want to know the MOST we can do.
And finally, not ONE of you even had the courage to debate or admit that you didn’t show outrage against ‘W’ when he made jokes about not finding WMD’s, while our soldiers were being slaughtered. How interesting.
mikehawk,
I know that everything from hurricanes to a chipped tooth are the fault of ChimpBushHitler – but how is he to blame for Kerry’s foot in mouth disease?
Deflecting the topic with a tangent on Bush makes no sense unless you cede the idiocy of Kerry’s remark and are changing the subject because you have no hope of winning the argument.
Did I miss the segue?
When moonbats trollyharp (DING, DING, DING) about Bush like a broken recording, it’s a sure fire indication that the synapses in their brains are misfiring. Every topic somehow comes home to ChimpBushHitler, and they score extra idiot points for mentioning monkeys or WMD. It’s like their mind runs home to Momma, the programming kicks in and off they go in a full-fledged BDS tirade. They tilt around the HateBush axis – spinning ever faster – and wondering in all their fury why they never get anywhere. Someone please nail mikehawk’s other shoe to the floor. He’s dizzy.
The comment was made by Kerry.
It doesn’t matter what he meant to say.
It matters what he said.
And GWB has nothing to do with it.
Lib/Dem/Socialist: Your elite leader, John Kerry voted for the war with Iraq. When the truth comes out that the bio-terror and dirty bombs were simply moved to Syria, will you then be sorry you listened to the Dem & Demmer talking points?
You are a nice little crap carrier for Big Brother/Big Sis. Stay away from sharp opjects on Tuesday evening.
Mick- “he read the same reports Bush did”- you don’t think that the President has access to information that nobody else does? Kerry and everyone else read the reports that Bush ALLOWED THEM TO READ.
Swampwoman- “either there are too many guns and shooting or not enough guns and shooting”- what the hell are you talking about? Why don’t YOU try to make sense? And by the way, it would be great if “War College” credentials were required before anyone was allowed to discuss the Iraq situation, because then all of us would be quiet and leave all the thinking to the guys in charge. You know, the idiots who are screwing it up. I guess it’s unpatriotic to question your leaders, huh? You sheep….
Also, Swampwoman, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, none of them outright claimed that Iraq attacked us, but they went out of their way to implicate Saddam as being connected to 9/11, which was of course debunked by the 9/11 commission. But you probably never heard that from your one news source, Rush Limbaugh.
No2Liberals, you just sound insane. You really think that the economy is doing well? Record numbers of people living in poverty, without healthcare, etc. Sure lots of new jobs have been created- that’s because a lot of people have to work TWO OF THEM just to get by. And if you aren’t concerned about losing your civil liberties, your basic rights, then you are a moron.
By the way, Kathy, for the record, I think Kerry is a moron. What I was addressing was the last statement in the blog above, “Perhaps now, the MSM will use this gaffe as an opportunity to find out what the dems actually propose to do regarding the serious issues of the day, instead of rushing headlong into giving Kerry yet another pass.” So a gaffe from Kerry means that dems should be scrutinized, but under no circumstances should we ever scrutinize Dear Leader, is that it? You just keep blindly following authority, Kathy. Maybe someday you will understand what’s really going on…
Lib-Don’t you think if Bush had access to even more evidence of “yellow cake” or bio-terror weapons, he would have showed that to Congress?
What kind of brainwashing have you been subjected to? What university did you attend?
It’s scary that you can’t follow a logical arguement. Kerry, the elitiest who married twice into money, a real gold digger, VOTED FOR THE WAR IN IRAQ!
Mick,
Some points for you.
A) Kerry is no leader
B) I never said he didn’t vote for the Iraq invasion.
C) Moved to Syria? That’s a new one. And our intelligence community doesn’t know about this? Maybe you should call up the NSA.
D) Wouldn’t know what a talking point was if it bit me
E) Maybe you should read Orwell’s ‘1984’. You’d find a lot in there about Big Brother that sounds awfully familiar with the current administration’s policies.
F) No sharp objects? Can’t find them as you’re using them all for your razor sharp wit.
Liberal,
The definition about what constitutes support for the troops – is straight from the troops. You don’t get to decide what support is, they do.
It’s not a matter of disagreement. We don’t both get to be right. You are wrong about the war. Period. Silly leftist. Surrender is not an option.
I don’t want to know you – I’m dumber for having read what you’ve written. You did not put forth a well reasoned argument, you put forth some false assertions and a distraction from the issue.
The topic is John Kerry’s anti-American military insult.
He said it. Not GWB.
You want to muddy the waters with all sorts of other topics. LOL.
Off Topic/
And Monica was 19 when she began her dalliance with BJ.
Foley had actual sex with who? Nevermind – you toss out statutory rape – where’s your evidence of that and why isn’t he in jail? Hyperbole is not a reasoned debate.
Again – Foley is gone. Democrat Studds was re-elected four more times after actual sex with a 16 year old male page — on this topic you are demonstrably intellectually dishonest.
/Sorry nuke for going OT. 😉
By the way, no2liberals, you asked me for a “variable fact”. I find that to be very funny, because that is exactly what conservatives use, variable facts. Meaning that they are true some of the time, and false other times. Like the existence of WMD, which Mick pointed out are probably in Syria. Because after all, that’s what countries do when attacked, they move all of their weapons to another country! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! Thanks everyone, for the refreshing dose of stupidity…. now I have to get back to intelligent people.
The moonbat brigade as an authority on rebelling against authority. It’s been the meme since the sixties. Way back when I was a democrat, but I grew out of it.
LOL.
You have the MSM feeding you your thoughts…. democrats haven’t had an independent thought in years.
That thing on your shoulders is more than a hat rack.
“That thing on your shoulders is more than a hat rack”- can’t say the same for you, hillbilly. By the way, your blogger profile mentions something about an “angoran knot”. I believe you meant “Gordian knot”. Look it up.
Kathy,
You’re funny. Who wrote surrender?
As for supporting our troops, I believe sending money, cards, phone cards, lending an ear to listen, might, just might be considered giving support. But then again, yo are not the troops, so I won’t ask you either. I already have my answer from them. You don’t want to debate, you just want to do some name calling.
Invading Iraq was a mistake. Our commanders have made a mess of it.That you are so blind to that fact is sad. But this IS off topic, so I’ll end there.
The subject WAS Kerry. I’ve admitted that he said a stupid thing. It’s you who can’t let it go. Yet YOU are the same type who gave ‘W’ a free pass when he insulted our troops. It’s the same issue. Not OT.
Regarding Off Topic:
Muddy Waters? You brought all this off topic stuff UP! I’m just commenting on what you’ve already said. Kathy, meet mirror.
Monica was 22 wen SHE HAD SEX with Clinton. Get OVER it. She was a consenting adult. As she would be even at 19.
If you have kids, you should be disgusted at what Foley did, just as I am disgusted at what Dobbs did. I never voted for nor supported Mr Dobbs. Wake up. It’s NOT a Republican/Democrat issue. It’s an issue of right and wrong. Under 18. Abosfreakinglutely WRONG. Period.
Please, try and come up with something better next time.
102,
aw, damn. there you go with that “smarter party” stuff again.
see ya’ mikehawk. don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Hi Liberal. You want a reasoned debate?
I’m game.
give it your best shot.
I mean, correct me if I’m *cough* wrong, but, if the left should win control of the legislative branch next week, then it seems to me that they actually need someone in the White House like George W, Bush.
Why?
Can you give me any specific policy difference between the Dems and the President? I can’t think of one. The Dem policy is, and has been since Tom Daschle ruled the Dem Senate Caucus to be one of “going negative” on each and every proposal that President Bush has made. The rare exceptions have occurred during the period just after 9/11 when the Dems were afraid to follow their hearts a la Michael Moore, Chomsky, etc. Interesting to me is that the two afore-mentioned, while outside of the Dem mainstream just after 9/11, now represent the heart and soul of the Left.
“And by the way, it would be great if “War College” credentials were required before anyone was allowed to discuss the Iraq situation, because then all of us would be quiet and leave all the thinking to the guys in charge. You know, the idiots who are screwing it up. I guess it’s unpatriotic to question your leaders, huh? You sheep….”
I asked you what your credentials were to criticize the WOT and to come up with a better plan. If you were criticizing farming or ranching practices and wanted to present a better “plan”, I’d want to know your degree and whether you were a farmer, a rancher, wetland or dry, and in a cold or warm area of the country because that makes a difference. If you had never actually done any farming or ranching but had read a book about how to do it once, I would evaluate your plan as completely worthless. If you were commenting on a medical issue such as the need for a cancer surgery, I would want to know your clinical specialty and how many years of practice you had. Again, if you were, say, an infantry general, I wouldn’t put much credence in your opinion. If you wanted to give an opinion on what was mechanically wrong with a vehicle, again, I would want to know how you arrived at that opinion.
So, since you are asserting that “Bush” is mismanaging the war on terror (actually, tactics are left up to the miltary), I would like to know what your area of expertise in fighting terror and/or wars is. Are you in a law enforcement capacity? Do you work in something like the border patrol or DEA? Are you currently or formerly in the military and, if so, what is/was your MOS and unit?
kerry was right – he just phrased it wrong. if you don’t prove your worth in the US, they’ll just ship you off to die for oil in the middle east. more power to the people who want to go over there, but studying (unlike bush did at yale) might indeed help ya out.
Benji, please. You’re not even trying here. Proving your worth at what? And exactly what sort of hunting/gathering existence do you lead where oil is not important to your lifestyle?
/Oh, right, bus rider.
care to back any of those claims with …uh some facts, or did you just drop by to rant?
Oh, hey Nuke! Had I known you were up and about, I would be toiling away at my capitalistic telecommuting existence.
I’ll carry on now.
heh, study in college? damn, that’s a new one on me!
thanks for holding down the fort swamps.
Hey benji, if you’re in college now, son, then live it up and enjoy it while it lasts. It’s the last time in your life that no one will ever expect anything out of you!
If I hadn’t been out having so much fun, I could have been here having my brain dulled with the LLL fest.
Let’s see, mikehawk couldn’t offer even one varifiable example of how President Bush is destroying the country.
Liberal was just…well, just was.
Then benji just illustrated that an MBA from Harvard, implies that President Bush’s BA from Yale was meaningless. Yep, the President is the only person to have fun, and not hit the books, while an undergraduate, then serious up as he got older and wiser. Maybe after benji accomplishes something other than a cafeteria food fight, he/she will serious up as well.
I will say one thing for the leftard visitors tonight, they are convinced of their positions, without facts, but convinced nontheless.
I mean, you would have to disconnect from the info world completely, not to have heard of the Soviet assistance to move the WMD from Iraq to Syria. Even a Damascus journalist reported it in a European newspaper, only months after the invasion of Iraq, and even provided a map to identify the locations where it was shipped. Then, only a few short months ago, a former Saddam military officer reported how passenger planes were converted to carry the items. Geebus!
Oh, and if mikeyhawk thinks I’m a moron and sound insane for asking for facts, then it’s clear, Liberalism is a mental disorder.
As for Liberal saying the invasion of Iraq is a fact, it’s unfortunate he/she can’t discern between an assertion and a fact. The invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do, and staying until the job is done is the right thing to do. That’s my assertion, not a fact, but the fact is, many agree with me, so I don’t care what a leftard defeatist has to say about me or the war in Iraq.
As for John Francois Kerry, he said what he said, he meant what he said, even if he didn’t follow his script, and he has felt the way he does about our military for thirty five years, when it became clear this was his best opportunity to pursue a political career, and no, I will not let it drop, and will add it to the things he has said and done, and continue to remind everyone I can, what he has said and done.
Ha!
Glancing back, I see what gave mikehawk his out for not answering how President Bush is allegedly destroying the world. It was my typo. Good eye mikey!
Our ability to recognize objects in the visual world is among the most complex problems the brain must solve. Computationally, it is much harder than reasoning.
You are living proof.
A reminder for election day, 7 Nov 06.
Who made the following statement, was it the poster Liberal, or was it Abu Yahia, of Al Qaida in Iraq?
I will not let it drop, and will add it to the things he has said and done, and continue to remind everyone I can, what he has said and done
Absolutely. We need to hold the megaphone for a couple more days.
Ahh, n2l, your eloquence is…inspiring?
Invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Why?
Fact:
A) There were no WMD’s (just like there are no Soviets you were speaking about). Even the White House said there were no WMD’s in Feb 2001 (Colin Powell), and again with Ms Rice in July 2001. Search it, if you like. Thus, our reason for invasion was wrong (State of the Union address, January 29, 2003)
Fact:
B) Iraq was in no way linked to 9/11 (you can look that one up yourself)
Fact:
C) Iraq invasion policy did not sufficiently take into account the history of the suni/shi’it political/civil problem and we now see they are on the brink of civil war in Iraq (see the Pentagon briefings and Powerpoint presentation). Greeted with flowers indeed.
Fact:
D) The world is not safer, in fact we’ve emboldened those who want to send stuipd boys to die on suicide missions (to be clear for you, I’m talking about the terrorists). Look up the number of terrorist attacks in the years since and before the war.
Fact:
E) It has distracted us from Afganistan and our real targets, the Taliban and Bin Laden. Now, the Taliban is gaining control AGAIN in Afganistan.
Fact:
F)The coalition of the willing has continued to diminish since the invasion. Usually, when you allies start to doubt your intentions, that’s not a very good sign.
The Syria link, no, I had not heard of it (I keep away from most mainstream media, left and right). It is an intriguing story, but why now? It’s taken HOW long to come up with this story? And, really. If it’s true, why isn’t our government doing more about it? It would at least show that he was working on WMD’s and thus justify the invasion. But the administration is not. Why?
I’ve offered ample facts mostly ignored by you, I might add. Your posts are the ones in genreal that are lacking as anyone who reads them can see.
As I’ve stated before, yet you’ve chosen to ignore, I’ve no idea how to correct the mess we’ve put ourselves into. However, to intimate that I am somehow Al Qaida connected is just a sick, low, and ultimately a sad commentary on you. You aren’t able to debate with reason, so you spread hate.
Nuke, you asked a good question. I believe that if the Dems are in control of either the house or senate, it will provide some much needed checks on the power of our government. The Dems were pretty good at balancing the budget, reducing our deficit, shrinking the government, cutting spending (yes, this was also with the help of a Republican congress, hence why I believe in checks and balances). ALL, I might add, Republican issues (or should be) that this administration has not held up.
However, if, as you say, there’s not much policy difference between Democrats and Republicans, then why the hate here for the Dems?
The Dems would also question some of ‘W’s reasoning for his desired power for the office of the president. Something people seem to forget, once ‘W’ makes the presidency more powerful and less answerable to Congress, it won’t just end when he leaves. Future presidents (and I hate to burst your bubbles, but some of those may just in fact be Dems) will have the same power. I don’t believe that my employee (the president) from ANY party should have these unilateral powers of decision.
And, yes, I will keep hammering away at the FACT that you do not hold the Republican politicians to the same standards as Democrats as evidenced by everyone skipping over the topic of Bush having a joke about not finding the WMD’s while our kids were being slaughtered.
CORRECTION:
Using my dyslexia, I wrote Dobbs instead of Studds in a previous post. Sorry for any confusion. Though I think there’s a talking head named Dobbs, no? I don’t know. Don’t have a tv.
Mornin’ Liberal. It was a late nite for me last.
Thanks for coming by. I’ll let n21 answer your points when he checks in. He’s more than capable of defending himself.
Should the left gain control of either house of Congress, the result will be gridlock, imo, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes, the Republicans have spent too much money.
And now, I must stop being so agreeable.
Re the Dems reducing the budget, shrinking the size of government, and reducing spending? I do recall the talk of a “Peace Dividend” in the early 90’s. The shrinkage and reduced spending came at the expense of Defense. Not a good thing, again imo. Also giving rise to the outsourcing of previous military positions and support duties to companies like….cue scary music…Haliburton.
I certainly didn’t mean to imply that I see no discernable policy difference between the two parties. Quite the contrary. But, laying aside the whole guns or butter argument for the moment, there are but three issues that resonate with me, and with many on my side. 1)National Security.2) immigration/border security. 3)judicial appointments. These three I am unwilling to concede to the left, and I will continue hammering away at this keyboard, organizing those that I have personal influence with, and making sure that each of those persons vote next Tuesday.
I don’t share your concern over a perceived overreaching power of the Chief Executive—not in wartime anyway. I have no problem understanding that there needs to be two viable and capable parties competing for political power. My concern is that the Dems are wrongheaded on National Defense.
You may call attention to Bush’s WMD video joke if you like. If his routine offended you, then you have every right to bring it up. I wasn’t particulary bothered by it at the time, and if that means I’m a hypocrite, then so be it. I’ve been called a lot worse.
BTW, what is your definition of slaughter?
>nuke
I call BS on the following:
To address each and every one of your assertions with information, that is available to you and anyone else, would take longer than one mug of coffee, and since they wouldn’t coincide with your opinions, you wouldn’t accept the info anyway. The WMD’s in Iraq are an old story, nothing new and certainly not just now, it’s just that for you, and your admittedly not paying attention to the news, it is new.
As for the coalition members that have left Iraq, Spain and the Philippines wimped out due to terrorist acts and threats, while some of the other countries that left had very small contingents, and were there for the rebuilding, not the fighting. The Taliban is putting up a fight, but this BS about them taking over again is just silly.
So who said this, was it Liberal or was it Abu Yahia?
It seems I was referred to as being insane, and the tired old analogy of repeating the same mistakes over and over…yadda-yadda, was directed at me, from the same poster that complains of being unfairly characterized and doesn’t like name calling. Listen Lib, you are a quitter, just admit it. Determination in the face of adversity is not repeating the same mistake, if you are getting results. Sure, the mufsidun are killing our brave troops in Iraq, while also murdering even more muslims, soldiers and police, but mostly innocents. Sure, their are death squads and militias murdering muslims in Iraq, and those are serious matters that are being addressed. The MNF is doing much more than helping train the ISF so they can stand up to these challenges. The fact that more and more jihadis are going to Iraq is actually an ideal situation, so we can kill them with our equipped and trained soldiers, instead of having to fight them in our schools, and malls in this country. You really need to widen your information sources, before you start making false assertions…and no, I’m not going to find the links for all the above info just for you, as those are matters most of us here have addressed long ago.
One of the main reasons we can’t trust the Dhimmicrats in office, is they and their cronies in the LameStream Media, are so incompetent.
From Mark Levin:
I don’t know if you saw it or not, but Freeper JVeritas, who has spent a great deal of time and effort translating the Iraqi documents at FMSO made some excellent points yesterday. LINK
Thanks nuke…I’ll check the link after my biscuits, bacon, and eggs, and before I go to the gym.
Oh, good piece up by VDH.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmJiODI2MGM3OWIxY2M0MWRhNWQwN2Y2OTBkNGVjY2Q=
He obviously wrote this before he read the NYSlimes story about WMD.
Hi Nuke and posse: Just back from a 9 hour drive – this election is really warming up I see – this must be a record breaking thread. I’ve got to spend some time catchin’ up on the news.
BTW – there were plenty of WMD’s in Iraq and the rest were in Syria. The mystery to me (if there is one) is why Bush wasn’t more resolute about it.
Howdy vimto!
Welcome back, and glad y’all had a safe trip home.
Nuke, please check your email…please!
VIMTO! So glad to see you. Now, what’s this in the Guardian about the British believing Pres. Bush is more dangerous than North Korean Kim?
/Well, I guess the Prez’s nukes actually work.
N2L is going to the gym?
/Visions of N2L in aerobics class in a leotard.
Here’s the link to the Guardian article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1938436,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=11
They seem like a remarkably silly set of people. I generally read the Telegraph.
128 n2l
I’m not sure what happened, but the links that you posted to Liberal got caught in the spam filter and were deleted 😳
If Liberal drops back by, I’ll let him know that you had some pretty good linkage for his perusal.
sorry about that.
Captains Quarters has some information on the information translated thus far as well:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008423.php
Danged ol’hungry innernut, ate my post did it?
Let me make it easy for the Lib. Go to your favorite search engine, though I recommend google, as it will give you the same results it gave me. On one search, type in “wmds discovered in Iraq,” and in the other search, type in “iraq wmd moved to Syria.” It’s easy to do, and enlightening as well.
Yeah Swampie, I go to the gym, not as often as I would like. Being a capitalist, and a cog in the wheel of a strong economy, I have to prioritize.
I would like to kindly ask you…quit looking at my junk!
D’OH! Busted for sexual harassment.
Oppsie MikeHawk (or MikeDove) — The lib must feel like the character Bruce Willis played in “Sixth Sense” when he discovered he was dead. Today, we know that Sadaam was within a year of building an atomic bomb. Now the ingrediants are in Syria.
Bwahaahahhahh!
Mick, it’s all Bush’s fault. If he hadn’t unilaterally invaded Iraq all by himself (and personally commanded the invasion) the peaceloving Saddamites would have never engaged in nuclear profusion. Or perfusion. Or maybe that’s just fusion. Whatever, it’s Bush’s fault!
Yeah!
It’s all President Bush’s fault!
Everything…Pearl Harbor, the Spanish Inquisition, Krakatoa, Barry Bonds styroid use, and his picking on a peaceful OBL.
no2liberals…..easy buddy, youre going to burst a vein. i like talking with the troops too…..i ask them questions, hug them, hold their crying heads on my shoulders. i let them know they’ll be fine….that they can call or email anytime. but who on this planet would ever think that by withdrawing troops would be insulted? were the vietnam vets insulted , not to my knowledge save for the ‘unwelcome’ they got when coming home. the biggest insult they have is being over there in the first place when it’s a no-win situation. that’s beyond insult, that’s called suicide.
kerry may live under the banner of democrat, but when it comes to the crunch he’s a flip-flopping puppet. he didn’t get ahead of edwards without the aide of the rebuplicans who knew he wasn’t as strong a contender.
there’s the notion of quitting, and the wiseness of knowing when to walk away. i’m sure you experienced that in combat…you don’t go into a situation that spells hopeless, and you don’t remain in one that is too. basic training tells you to pull back. remember?
oh, and i’m not a democrat. i’m non-partisan and work for augmenting democracy because what we have is an archaic version of it. if you buy into the notion that north america and the western world is true demoracy, do a little delving, you might be surprised.
Also, for the liberal defeatists and quitters, we are at war now, so join the fight or mumble amongst yourselves. We’ve already tried the alternative to war.
HV, pardon me if I misunderstood your position.
I don’t recall the particulars of your original post, nor mine to you, but I do remember I disagreed with your assertions then, as I do now.
Yes we were insulted by the pull-out in Vietnam, as it was completely winnable on the battlefield, but the weak will here in the U.S. is what undermined the effort, as the leftards are trying to do now. The leftards are prepared to go orgasmic, if or when we pull-out before the job is completed. It would be the dayz of the late 60’s and early 70’s, all over again, the greatest moment in time for the anti-American left.
No, I’m not into suicide missions, I leave that to the knee-rocking, head-banging mufsidun of ol’Moh, but quitting is not acceptable, when the situation is far from hopeless, as you put it. I view it as a constantly improving situation, especially when considering the starting point, as there is abundant information available to indicate it, despite the negativity that gets espoused by the LameStream median, and dhimmicrats thursting for power.
Try the link below. Many of us here have examined it extensively, some months ago. It’s in pdf format, and is constantly updated. It’s done by the Brookings Institute, and is not considered a conservative think tank. To me it speaks of a nation being rebuilt, that is showing consistent improvement, but where many challenges still exist. It doesn’t speak to hopelessness for me, at all.
Click to access index.pdf
Then you can also go to the USAID website, and see what is going on there, as well.
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/updates/index.html
As for true democracy, I’m not interested in mob rule. I much prefer a representative republic, based on democratic principles.
Maybe we wil be better off withdawing from Iraq.
The U.S. will look better with Harper Valley and her friends wearing a Burqas.
I call bullshit on Harper Valley. A soldier isn’t going to have any toleration of that sort of defeatist thinking.
My basic training didn’t say a thing about cutting and running.
I have no idea what these people are spouting off on “losing” and “defeat”. They obviously have no grasp on history whatsoever.
Lord preserve us from “intellectuals” that do not know how to write a proper sentence, have never read a history book, have never served in the military, and are instant experts on how to win a war through running away. Sheeit.
So, Harper Valley, you’re busily working to overthrow the constitution? I believe I swore an oath about that.
What kind of utopia is Harper Valley trying to employ? Cuba’s? The former USSR’s? The new Venezuela? I get it, the BIG BROTHER/BIG SISTER Hillary utopia.
Swampie, I agree with you, and Mick, I’ve always been a positive thinker, and view challenges as something you confront, not walk away from. I will give HV a little more slack than y’all at this point, based on his/her last post to me. If people want to disagree, agreeably, I don’t feel offended. HV is certainly more honest, and respectful than some of the other posters that have joined us here in the past few days.
As for remaining in a so-called no-win situation, our history, indeed the history of the world, is full of events like that.
Was I afraid standing on the tarmac of Tan Son Nhut Air Base, during the evac of Saigon? You bet! We were surrounded, drawing rocket, mortar, and small arms fire, and all the time trying to evac as many orphans as possible. I was proud then, and now, of the brave men and women I served with, and of all the things we were able to accomplish. If we hadn’t stood up, and faced the challenge, what would have become of all those children, infants to toddlers? The thought never entered my mind, that I didn’t belong there, and that what I was doing was somehow wrong or hopeless. Yes, I could have been killed, so could my bud’s, but we didn’t dwell on that, only on surviving, but most importantly on the mission. If our mission had failed, I would have been devastated.
To this day, whenever I hear Bing Crosby sing ‘White Christmas,’ I have to turn it off, as it was the Armed Forces Radio signal, to get the eff out of town. I still feel that we betrayed many, many wonderful people, and their families, by leaving them there, and not fighting on. But the anti-war defeatists had succeeded in convincing their leftist members in Congress, to withdraw all funding to South Vietnam. I know what the cut and run approach does, as could anyone, that bothered to look at the history of our involvement in VietNam, and how the defeatist leftards of today are trying to relive that sad period of American history.
Well, N2L, I will defer to your wish to engage him, her, or it in conversation then. I just know that when I was in, the offer of a shoulder to cry on (!!) from a civilian would have been met with incredulity on my part.
Incredulity mixed with profanity, more likely.
Yes. SwampWoman, I honor no2liberals’ comments about Nam. But I believe we should flush out propagandists and try and educate them about free enterprise and freedom of choice.
I know one of the “boat people” who escaped the North Vietnamese killers. I saw that the Vietnamese communists let 2,000 women prisoners free on the 25th anniversary of their winning the war. There were no men let free. They were all killed.
Unh huh. That’s exactly what would happen on a “strategic withdrawal” (cut and run) from Iraq as well. Funny how all these liberals are in favor of mass murder.
Swampie, yeah well, I gotta admit, that shoulder to cry on thing got overlooked, and find that one a bit of a stretch. Vets don’t generally decompress with anyone other than another vet.
The vets I have had the privilege to spend time with over the past few years, are able to communicate effectively with non-verbal communication. They can also cipher my non-verbal communication as well. They let me know if they respect or trust me with their eyes, and they also let me know if they want to open up, and discuss their experiences. I encourage it, as I know from experience, that talking about the experiences is the best way to move forward.
Mick, the treatment of those Vietnamese that remained to live under the purges of the Communist, is painful too me. Also, the treatment of the ‘boat people’ is one of those tragedies that most know nothing of. The pirates of the South China Sea had a very productive few years, of raping, robbing, and murdering, the defenseless Vietnamese refugees.
Well, I can see where a young man may pretend to be all sensitive and in need of decompression if the shoulder offered is attractive enough.
What a sexist and cynical thing to say!
/and accurate
I, of course, would have never resorted to any such deceit in stalking of a likely male.
/Of course you believe me, right?
n2L…my ‘why now?’ was refering to why is it being promoted by some people now, but not the white house, if it indeed, as you believe, shows the smoking gun. my ‘come up’ was not meant to say that it was made up, but why has it come up so late in the election cycle? Why wasn’t this promoted two years ago? Why isn’t the White house promoting this now? It would seem to me to be an ace in the hole if they did. So, as they’re not doing this, there must be something wrong with some information. How I missed it, well that’s easy. I’m busy working two jobs and keeping a family together.
Insane. I never called you that. I was responding to your way of thinking in this post:
‘. If you have found in your life, that it’s okay to just quit when you are faced with a difficult task, you shouldn’t automatically expect that the majority of people share your outlook.
I never give up…ever. If someone smacks me in the mouth, I smack them ten times. If they hit me with a bat, I will run over them with a truck. If they shoot me, they better kill me, as I will make them die screaming.’
My point being that sometimes in life you have to stop what you’re doing (as it’s not achieving the desired outcome), and seek a new path. Doing the same thing over and over again is not always the right choice.
I did not know your history (thank you again to Swampwoman), but I am personally sick of hearing from people who put the ‘support our troops’ bumpersitckers on their cars, and that’s ALL they ever do. That is why I went off on the handshaking business and I assumed (wrongly) that you were one of those. Again, I don’t want to know the least that people do, I want to know the most that they (and thus WE) can do.
To call BS on what I wrote shows that you didn’t even google the info like I did with yours.
And again, I ask, where was your ire when ‘W’ made fun of looking for the WMD’s while our troops were getting slaughtered?
As for nasty name calling, I stand by my previous post on linking me with Al Qida. That was low.
Hi Liberal.
I thought you addressed the WMD video joke to me?
Well, Miz Kitty and BooBoo just started their window-scratchin’ “feeeeed me Seymour” routine.
Catch up with y’all in a little bit.
Good Evening, Nuke.
Thanks for the welcome and the good debate.
Easy thing first. Definition of slaughter to me is war. I don’t see how two kids killing each other or trying to proves any point. Are there necessary wars? Sadly, yes. But I still consider them slaughters for the men and women involved.
I agree with you on the problem of ‘outsourcing’ the defence, but I don’t think the downsizing of the military is such a bad thing IF it’s done right (yep, that’s a big if). For example, smaller fighting units that can be deployed quicker (I hate to write this, because I think the term is awful, but something similar to a rapid response force). Not ALL of the military should be like this, but imo we need to have our military evolve as the world and conflicts have. But the downsizing did need to happen imo as we were changing from the Cold War to something new.
You mentioned three things that are a corner stone (to paraphrase) to you.
1)National Security
I know that you know that 9/11 happened under ‘W’s watch. We’ve seen from the 9/11 commission report that they did a fairly lousey job on our National Security pre 9/11 (I mean, demoting (effectively) Richard Clarke? The guy who was warning everybody about Bin Laden?). Why do you have so much belief in them now?
2) Immigration/border security.
What has this admin done to improve border security ‘across the board’? Yes, we see it in airports (and that really needed tightening up about 15 years previously (shame on all of them). But what about our shipping ports? Railways? They’ve not done nearly enough imo.
Immigration. What about it? Where do you stand. Do you agree with a border fence? Should we completely fence/wall ourselves in? Do we stop all foreigners from coming into the USA?
3)Judicial Appointments
Are you talking about the Supreme Court or lower courts?
Too much power to any government official is something that will always worry me, war time or peace. IMO no government official should ever have the power to make decisions without anyone checking his/her power. I believe that was the intent of our revolution against King George III.
What, exactly, do you think the Dems are wrongheaded about on Nat Sec? And please, continue banging away at your keyboard. I do care who wins, and we’re on opposite sides on this one, BUT, whoever wins should always win with a good percentage of the voting population actually voting. So, more power to you if you can help get rid of this apathy.
Yes, I do think that ‘W’s joke on the WMD was hugely disrespectful of our military and someone should have said ‘no’. Just as I think Kerry’s comments (goof or not) were. Yes, I know the explanation that he was making fun of ‘W’, but you’d THINK that someone in his camp would have looked at that joke and said’no’.
IMO I do find your position hypocritical, insomuch as I don’t understand why one ‘joke’ is ok to you
and the other is not (Kerry).
Nuke,
I originally addressed the WMD video joke to everyone (see the end of 95). You were the first to (thankfully) actually respond.
Yes, my friend, I welcome a civil discourse as well. It has been too long since that has happened. About 40 years.
I was having lunch with a dear friend of mine recently who I have worked with on various fund raising projects. We have always gotten along famously, until the subject of politics came up…and this quiet, humble man became someone I didn’t know anymore. We both decided, without actually discussing the decision, that for the sake of our friendship, politics would be a subject that we would no longer entertain in our luncheon discussions. Pity.
I do think that you may be more of an idealist than I. Warfare is, unfortunately the chosen method of nation states to solve differences when the highest good faith of negotiators can no longer be discerned.
That won’t change in our lifetimes through any power that exists in the temporal world.
Immigration reform to me means simply protecting the sovereignty of the nation state by being able to decide who receives the privelege of being able to enter. The massive influx on the southern border is unacceptable to me. The myriad of social issues from cash-wage manual labor jobs to the increased cost to the social welfare system is unacceptable to me. I don’t know what the solution is. Amnesty was tried 20 years ago, the problem supposedly fixed. It wasn’t, and it isn’t still. The only serious immigration reform that hs been proposed has come from the House Republicans. I am not saying build a walled “fortress America”. But the fact is, this country has No control over who is entering the country. It is an issue that resonates with the public, and I predict next month, when the ’08 Presidential campaign officially begins, you’ll see Hillary Clinton taking a tough border security stance.
Judicial appts, national security, and the Kerry insult: Let me take the last one first. I wrote about this subject early this morning. Rather than repeat what I wrote earlier today, I would ask that you consider reading the post “A Pound Of Kerry Flesh”, or better yet, the article from WSJ linked in the post “Shame on Him”.
Judicial appointments and national security will take a long time to fully explain, but if you truly want to know, let me know, and I’ll be happy to oblige.
Regards,
>nuke
Liberal
Look, we can go back and forth all you want. You have your opinions, I have mine. I’m not trying to change your’s, and you could never change mine. Okay so far?
If I call BS, it’s because I see BS.
All the things in that blockquote, have been addressed…at length, by most of us here, long ago, on different blogs. That so much of this info is new to you is not my, or anyone else’s responsibility, but your own.
If my comparing your statement, with Abu Yahia’s, to illustrate the similarity, then perhaps it was hitting too close to home. You thought it low, I thought it informative.
As for how the situation in Iraq is being addressed, I have full faith in the abilities of our military commanders, and the administration, to adapt and overcome, an enemy that is constantly changing and adapting. The invasion of Iraq occured on 20 Mar 03, the fourth year anniversary is only four months away. If you, as do others, believe rebuilding a nation after how many years of tyranny and degradation, and three wars, is something that should be done quickly, and without difficulty, then I will never understand how little thought you have put into your position. The conflict in Bosnia-Herzegovina began more than ten years ago, and they are expecting the hand-over of the govenment in those countries…next year! After the defeat of Germany, the insurgency continued for about four years, a very deadly insurgency, carried out by the Werewolves, yet we didn’t give up on Germany; and it took us ten years to get Japan to stand up after the end of WWII. If we had abandoned those countries, like we did VietNam, what would the world look like today?
So, no! I don’t care for defeatism in the face of a worthwhile goal, one that can be achieved with perseverance, and diligence. I want our young men and women in the military, to return safely and soon, with the dignity and respect they deserve, after a job well done. To do otherwise, would be a disgrace to our nation, our troops, and a signal to any who would be our allies and friends, that we cannot be trusted to stick it out when things are difficult. That’s not even including the propaganda value to the Global Hirabah movement, and their desire to dominant the world with their goat-raping mentality.
Oh…about the joke you referred to, that President Bush told.
I remember when and what he said, and the context in which he said it. It seemed odd to me, but I didn’t take it as a slam against our troops, but rather a shot and the LameStream media, and liberals obsession with the WMD matter…which was just fine with me. If it disturbed you, and those you hang with, then it’s not surprising you would want to change the subject about Senator Gigolo’s insulting comments earlier this week.
Apples and apples it ain’t.
I had a discussion like that the other night with some people that were wondering “how long it would take” in Iraq. To do it right, I figured 50 years, minimum. You have to educate a couple of generations first. People are so used to instant on trips to the shopping center or going through the fast food drive through that they are not aware that time has not been repealed. Storage and transportation are what have improved. However, if you want a productive orchard and you’re starting with nothing, you still have to plant the seeds and wait for them to grow.
This quote from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer editorial, is displayed on Kerry’s very own website. I s**t-you-not!
OOPS!
Linkie-dink.
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/11/03/kerrys-website-defends-kerrys-joke/
That’s exactly right, Swampie.
Just ask SanFranNan how long it takes to get a vineyard to be mature and productive…even with large numbers of non-union undocumented citizens.
And remember, it’s…Because Of Iraq!
/part II
ugh, whatever, no point in trying to convince a conservative they’re wrong.
Heh, no point in putting facts in front of a liberal.
Swampie…you the bees-knees!
Kind of a cute little smug ugh though, wasn’t it?
I’ll bet the cute puppie makes it a practice of getting into a battle of wits without ammo.
Oh my, feeling feisty. Better get some kaffe into this proud kaffir, and do something productive before the football games come on.
no2liberals
we’re agreed on one thing and that’s the lame mainstream media.
interesting, you’re the first vet i’ve heard who thought vietnam could be won. i’m sure there’s many but it’s a bit like listening to a team member from a game where the baseball game itself dictated pulling because the one team was getting skunked. or listening to world war two vets who were part of a losing battle say, ‘if this that and the other thing had of happened, we could have won’ . it only becomes a ‘could have should have’ situation…nothing’s gained.
sorry, dont have the time and inclination to read your links…..for every view there’s a counter view and in the end nothing is ‘proven’…..until the truth starts getting revealed through blunders and freedom of information and all that hoo ha , years later.
i think what we have to keep in mind is this was was preemptive. more civilians lives are being lost then under the cruel and yucky saddam’s reign, that there’s many other countries with ruthless leaders the states isn’t doing diddly squat about, and the soldiers being sent over there are being told right off the bat that this war is about oil. (that’s a reuter’s article, i could dig it up if i really have to, but the same article was all about how there’s now hundreds of soldiers speaking up against the war and some are refusing to fight).
so in the end, was this war really necessary? sometimes war is justified….don’t get me wrong on that. but when it’s over resources, because we all know osama is not an iraqui and in fact the u.s. funded the taliban and osama, then really, intelligence points to NO. if you’re really interested in getting your old vet fighting rocks off you might do better to argue about a justiied war that’s not a resource grab.
‘not interested in mob rule’….welll ok, if you are not a fan of democracy then perhaps you’d be better off living in a dictatorship. i invite you to move to any nation that is ruled that way . take your pick, there’s lots around. if you’re not happy with north america and democracy perhaps you could get out of your armchair and run for office . meantime, the truest form of democracy is the iroquois constitution which the american forefathers borrowed in part but not whole.
btw, saw your photoshop of bush with the hockey stick , while we’re at odds on opinon, i have to compliment you on a job well done!!!
HV
That this is the first time you’ve heard that Vietnam could have been won militarily, really surprises me. The military commanders weren’t allowed to conduct the war under LBJ, when the best opportunity for victory existed, as he and his cabinet micro-managed the war from the Oval Office. That’s why General Schwartkopf wouldn’t accept command of Desert Storm, unless he was given full operational control, he saw how war’s were not won when he served in Vietnam.
That you won’t look at the innocuous, unbiased, and very informative links I offered you tells me much more about your perspective, than I think you intended.
Such total BS.
Your chicken-shit manner of telling me to get out of America is without a doubt, one of the most pathetic attempts to end a discussion, that I’ve ever seen. I would never leave this great nation to the likes of chicken-shits like you, or bona fide leftards.
Especially when you don’t even understand the difference between a pure democracy and representative republic based on democratic principles. Ever hear of the Federalist Papers? Ever study them? Oh, I forgot, you don’t accept new items on your reading list.
Here’s an example of pure democracy, which is purely mob rule, and who gets the most votes. There are three men and two women in a room. One of the men wants to put to a vote, that the three men should rape the two women. There are three votes in favor, two against. Democracy prevails.
Do you even know why we have an Electoral College?
That’s why we aren’t a pure democracy, as too many would be excluded from society at all times, which is also why the Iraqi government has worked hard to include all segments of their society, eventhough the Shiia far outnumber all other groups.
Actually, we never funded the Taliban, we funded the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan, and it was OBL that founded Al Qaida, which means the ‘list.’ As for your intimation that Iraq wasn’t involved with Al Qaida, or 9-11, then you have to ignore an incredible amount of info to the contrary. Oh…right, the reading list thingie.
Also, the war is not just about oil. However, from my perspective, even if that were true, it would be fine with me…it’s kind of important to the world economy, but that just might be opinion.(sarc)
http://www.logictimes.com/flowchart%20pf.htm
no2liberals
i’m not american, i’m of cree heritage. this is a very important matter to know. your example of rape as the base of pure democracy is an ill attempt , and i might ad, a chicken-shit, fear based tactic at trying to convince an arguement with gross tactics, but no understanding of what true democracy is. in true democracy, the scenario you try to paint would not happen. why? read:
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/sovereignty/constitution.html
this is the truest form of democracy in the world. it is not merely ‘mob rule’, as you say.
suggesting you leave america is not a cop-out to a discussion, as you would have it. it is a suggestion to go to a place where you may be more happy. dictatorial regimes have more in the way for the military and little boys who like to play with their guns……it would give you freerer reign. you wouldn’t have to be concerned about ‘leftards’, you could just shoot them.
correction on my part, i have heard that some of the brass thought they could win the war, i have never met anyone in support of this notion until now. you and i’m sure lots of your cronies may feel this way but i doubt you’re in the majority.
I don’t believe this…angelfire is your source for info?
My friends were right…never feed the trolls.
ROFL, another pretendian in the grand Churchhill tradition! A Canuck no less. Clueless about life in general and particularly clueless about the warrior tradition and participation in the military by the American tribes. Go back to picking flowers, honey, and leave the fighting to them that know how.
no2liberals, the angelfire site is a link to the iroquois constitution. this is the easiest url for me to remember…i could have gone there, clicked on the link and given you the direct url to the constitution, but why bother, in the end it takes you to the same place. get over angelifre, read the constitution to understand what the truest form of democracy is.
swampwoman, i’m not sure who you’re directing your comments to.
You, sweetie.
So we’ve gone through all this for me to see the Iroquois constitution?
Feh!
Back on topic…Kerry is a POS, as are those that cover for his sorry a$$.
Oh, and the Butcher of Baghdad will, not near soon enough, get as good as he gave.
Swampie.
If you don’t say I told you so, I promise to never, ever, feed the trolls again.
/amen
It’s a deal!
Done!
swampwoman,
oh honey! please, can’t you do better then that? i mean , really, i’m not canadian or american, i’m a sovereign native indian on turtle island, and our warrior societies make the armed forces pale. uh huh, ya, i know all about our warriors being drafted or volunteering only to come back and find more land had been stolen. couldn’t have gotten far without the navajo code men, could ya? heh heh heh, six nations has already laid claims against the u.s. and canada and is charging the queen with genocide. just wait till you’re paying lease rights to be on our land. hahaha, judge clarence thomas has approved the right for the case to proceed.
no2libs, yup, have a good gander at the iroquois constitution….i’m not sure you’ll understand it though. the two row wampum is what your forefather’s borrowed in part from to set up faux democracy. you know, ‘mob rule by the people in power’. but i’m glad you have fun buying into their rhetoric and being taken advantage of without knowing it. denial is such an easy way to live, yes?
Oh, the old ‘I’m smarter than you’ ploy.
Pathetic.
Back under the bridge, troll.
Riiiiiiiight. I’ve lost count at how many times the story has changed. I’m just really impressed this time. I’d probably be even more impressed if the person in question had the faintest grasp of what she’s been talking about. Go shake your feathers elsewhere, sweetie.
Let’s see, the troll has no interest in the links I provide, and I live in denial. Rich.
So why should I have any interest in a constitution that has absolutely no meaning to me or the nation I love and live in?
I tell you what, I won’t read it, but you can read it to me.
heh heh, the bridge is a sweet place to climb up onto. ‘the old i’m smarter then you ploy’….i’m glad you like to give me good laughs. there’s lots of things in the iroquois constitution a non-native would not understand. this is not a matter of ‘smart’ it is a matter of culture. but if you want to show your insecurities by thinking i’m using some sort of ploy, that’s your choice. dang, this bridge has had a lot of jumpers. too bad.
the consitution of the iroquois has everything to do with the land you live on who you’ll be paying lease rights to soon. it would put you ahead of others if you learned it now instead of when things reverese and the land is ours again.
swampwoman, i think you’ve been into the swampwater. hon, take your time while reading, breathe deep, keep your eyes focussed. there, make sense now or are you still too riled to grasp the evolution of everyone’s thoughts? you’ve come a long way, baby, but not far enough.
*sigh*
Peyote is not your friend.
ROFL. Well, I’ll take my advice from somebody that isn’t suing the Queen for genocide (and her little Corgies, too!) and who actually has an inkling of understanding re the political matters that she is attempting to converse about.
Hey Swampie, does this sound familiar?
The South Shall Rise Again!
Well…..when WAS the last Yankee president? Gerald Ford?
Henh!
You trying to give the troll hope?
Everybody should have hope (grinnin’ like a possum).
peyote? never touched the stuff, what’s it like?
haha, as though i would care whether a president is a southener or yankee…makes no diff to me.
swampwoman, my, my, hon, that swampwater really has gotten to you. yes, the queen and her corgies , and her hats can all go down in genocide crime history, which affects the u.s.a., based on rule of law proclamations which still hold today. but then your knowledge of history obviously ends in the bog. hahaha, i really get a kick out of you two!!! seriously. are you comics? if not, try going to your local open mic comedy clubs, audiences LOVE lame attempts by self-appointed political knowledge fools. it would go over well. oh, don’t quit your day jobs though!!!!
Woo-Hoo!
Two Hunddred!
And all it took was a troll.
/who said they was good for nothin’.
DAMN you, N2L!
/201 isn’t nearly as good.
Henh!
/neither is 199.
heh heh, have fun with the stats kiddies….life under the bridge can help ya out more then ya think 🙂
Okay then.:roll:
Hmmm! 🙄
That’s a good day for a weekend. My highest day was 1,577 about a month ago due to my stories on Hugo Chavez and Citgo.
How have you been doing Harper Valley?
Hey, N2L!
Here’s some fun facts! http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot31.htm
Harper Valley is doing great! She has a lawsuit against the Queen and Corgies for genocide, then she’s gonna make the folks in the US pay rent.
That link for the depth of penetration in paper/textbooks of various bullets is courtesy of Bonz over at Gulf Coast Pundit.
Thanks Swampie, but saw that latest test last weekend…I think, or last week.
Hey Mick! That number was achieved over many, many days, thanks to the unrelenting delusional assault from HV.
Sigh. I shoulda known. Have you conducted any textbook tests?
My favorite is each year, I collect all the yellow pages from last year, which are many(and thick), and duct tape them together real tight, and soak them down. Slap a target on the side, and blast away, evaluating what each different round accomplishes. When we are about done, that’s when I break out the frangibles, and turn them into mush.
Dang, sounds like fun.
If I collected our yellow pages from everybody in town (and our yellow pages and white pages for 3 towns are all in one) and soaked them and duct taped them together, well, it just might have as much mass as a bale of hay, but I doubt it.
That was a great test. My conclusion is that the NATO round provides the most killing power for its size. I use them in my AR-15 pistol with 30 round mags. I’ll show you a picture a little later.
N2L, sorry for the pause. I have read the links you have provided ( found Brookings more informative but the USAID seems a bit too porpagana-ish) and I hope you will show me the same courtesy with the following as a rebuttal:
Note, I provided links that were from as direct a source as possible, avoiding news reports.
A) Ref no WMD’s (straight from the horses mouths)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5818507279124232524
Fact:
B) Iraq was in no way linked to 9/11 (Select comitee on intelligence Sept 8, 2006)
Click to access phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
Fact:
C) Iraq invasion policy did not sufficiently take into account the history of the suni/shi’it political/civil problem and we now see they are on the brink of civil war in Iraq…(Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq (Aug 29, 2006))
Click to access Security-Stabilty-ReportAug29r1.pdf
Fact:
D) The world is not safer, in fact we’ve emboldened those…(NIE report)
Click to access nie.declass.pdf
Fact:
E) It has distracted us from Afganistan and our real targets, the Taliban and Bin Laden. Now, the Taliban is gaining control AGAIN in Afganistan (SAAG report and Senlis Council)
http://www.saag.org/%5Cpapers19%5Cpaper1874.html
and
http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/014_publication/chapter_01
By the way, a simple google of the definition of Al qaeda states that the most common translation of Al Qaeda is ‘the base’ not, as you say ‘the list’.
The Werewolves in Germany ( or Edelweis Piraten and Jagdverbände) were not a huge insurgency (most numbers I can find is that 42 American may have died from these men) and eventually failed as the Deutsches Volk refused to shelter those men. It basically ended in 1947 (that’s 2 years, not the four you are claiming). Something the Iraqis are unable, or unwilling, to do. Also, the Weimar Republic had only been gone for 12 years. Iraq has never, ever seen Democracy. I find this a very, very faulty comparison between Iraq and Germany.
You constantly forget that I have repeatedly said that I think Kerry was wrong and his staff was wrong for even thinking about including such a stupid, lame, and horrible joke. There is no change of subject.
How you interpretted the ‘W’ WMD joke is astounding. The ‘liberal media’ (as if. It’s more corporate than anything) had nothing to do with the obsession of WMD’s. The point is the WMD obsessed people were obsessed because ‘W’ and his administration MADE us obsessed over it.
As far as your trust in this administration with this war in Iraq, it seems as though the Air Force, Marines, Navy, and Army see things differently:
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2333360.php
Good night and good luck.
Nuke,
Sorry for the delay. Got carjacked this weekend. Not something I ever want to repeat (hmmm, wonder if I can blame that on ‘W’?). 😉
Yes, I am an idealist. But also a realist. But I do hope that someone will just figure out that killing others just doesn’t make much sense.
I agree with you on our borders, and the porous nature of the borders is, or should be, alarming. I think the issue should be solved from many more angles (which is why I dislike the Republican plan so much). I honestly don’t think a walled country is going to work. But the basic question is why are people willing to face death so as they can come over to earn less than minimum wage? The obvious answer is problem lies in Mexico and the vast difference in standard of living between the US and Mexico. How do we start solving that? And how do we go after the people traffickers?
The other is to go after the source of income. Who are the companies paying all these people to work illegally? However, if we do crack down, then we have to accept that the prices of produce (in general the employer for ‘seasonal employees’) will probably increase as they’ll have to actually hire someone who will demand at least minimum wage.
So, yes. IMO, we need to be able to know who is in our country at all times. A national register does not infringe on the rights of those immigrants (that’s what the ‘Green Card’ is). In fact, it should be a source of pride (like it was in the 50’s and 60’s). And yeah, I’m sure Hillary will start spouting off about it soon.
I did consider the ‘W’ WMD joke a rather horrible affront to our troops. I would like to know why it doesn’t seem to bother you (then and now, after reflection). WSJ article was interesting and I agree that he should be ashamed (both for his affront to the troops and his Democratic colleagues who I’m sure would like to dope slap him (at best)). I have written and will continue to write that he was wrong.
I look forward to your opinion on Judges and National Security.
All the best,
“Got carjacked this weekend”
Good grief. Hope you’re ok.
Yeah. I’m ok. Couple cuts, brusies. Of all the weird things, after the punch in the eye, he took my glasses (which were mostly busted from the aforementioned punch) when it was obvious I wasn’t going to give up the car easily (couldn’t, was stuck in traffic!)(don’t think he really thought this one through). No weapons involved, so I consider myself lucky. Shaken up, but lucky.
Thanks.
I didn’t particularly like the WMD joke. I understand why he did it. He was trying to be friendly with an unfriendly and adversarial press. If was self-deprecating humor, and the troops were not the butt of the joke. Just the opposite with Kerry. Regardless of what he is saying now, if you go to his website, you will see that his front page (at least yesterday) was an article from a Seattle paper saying that Kerry was right. I cached the page just in case he takes it down.
Going after employers who hire illegals is exactly the way to tackle the problem in the long run. In the short run, the borders need to be secure with a fence. Not an armed fence, but one that will stem the flow of illegals from a flood to a manageable level.
Nat security? There’s only one issue as I see it. I happen to believe that when people say “death to America”, they mean just exactly that. 9-11 proved it to me. Fuggum. I don’t think the left gets it with regards to the threat facing the west from radical islam.
You were lucky. I was almost car jacked in San Francisco, two guys at both doors. Luckily I was fast and locked them both and then drove through a red light.
Mick
Yeah, those SS109’s are a good round, and have incredible penetrating ability. The phone book test proved that too me several years ago. With four Dallas-Ft. Worth yellow pages tightly bound together with duct tape, but not soaked in water, I placed them against a fallen, but not dried/rotten, fallen oak tree(@18inches diameter). I then fired five 7.62×39 steel cores into them, and checked, and most had penetrated through the books, and the tree. Then fired five SS 109’s through them, and those little steel penetrators went through the books, the tree, very cleanly. My nephew and I then hammered on them with the PCR5,from about 50yds., and the SS109’s were like a drill. According to some though, the SS109 reduces the knock down power, and prefer the original M193.
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=924
YEp, I was lucky, as were you, Mick. Sadly for me, going through a red light would have necessitated going through at least 25 cars, first. D’oh!
What town was that in Liberal? I’m in Houston. It has the murder rate of Detroit after we accepted the Katrina victims and jails.
Liberal, you took more wounds than Kerry did in Nam.
Nuke,
1st. Kerry was wrong. No matter what he says or how he justifies it. He is also not the leader of the Democratic party. Yes, he was the choice for President, but that was two years ago (I won’t even mention who I voted for in the primaries).
So, to the obvious rebuttal. 9/11 happened on this admin’s watch. Why do you think that they’ve done such a good job with National Security (again to me, ‘demoting’ Richard Clarke seems to have been one of their not so brilliant ideas). Also, what about the lack of securtiy at our ports. The Republicans have had quite some time to take care of that, and yet they haven’t done an adequate job.
Or, better put, what is it about the Dems that makes you think that they’re not getting it?
the nominee for President is the defacto head of the party, whether you want to claim him or not. He received the 2nd highest number of votes for President than anyone in the history of our country. Of course his position in the opposition party is important, and makes all the more important his choice of words, if you want to believe that it was just a ‘botched joke’. I think he meant every word he said. Again, I reference his own webpage.
It is a mistake to base your judgement of Bush’s prosecution of the war on what you know from press reports. “Different kind of war”, different fronts, different strategies, going after sources of funding, communication networks, a lot of things that we don’t know about.
The left still wants to use the court system as to administer justice for enemy combatants, which is silly and un-serious, and dangerous. This is the reason that UBL is not in custody now. He was offered to the Clinton administration, and clinton refused, knowing that he wouldn’t be able to meet the high burdern of proof that is required in the US criminal justice system.
Bush probably should have kept clark. I didn’t think so until I saw Path to 9-11. So, if Bush had a do-over he would probably have done many things differently. wouldn’t we all?
Liberal
This is tiresome, I present info, you present info. So in the spirit of this redundancy, in order.
A)Already refuted the ‘no WMD’ issue.
B)Already refuted this one too…uh, little story in the NYSlimes a few days ago added to it.
C)Perhaps not, but the fact remains 25million people have twice had free elections, with greater turnout than the U.S., and they had people threatening to kill them if they did. To me, that’s just a disprovable designed to cause delay or doubt.
D)The world has always been a dangerous place. But how many times has the U.S. been attacked since 9-11? The NIE (partial release) has been beaten to death, long before you came along. Just ask all the people around the world that have been getting attacked by the headchoppers.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
E)I will never agree that we are ‘distracted’ from the Taliban. The issues that have altered the situation are political/tribal by nature, and are mitigated by poverty and opium production.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/EF14Ag01.html
I mispoke about the ‘list’ that OBL kept, from the ‘base’ of support he generated from the, mostly social support he provided the mujahideen.
As for the Werewolves, my primary source for that episode in insurgency, came from a book I read many years ago, by Charles Whiting, called ‘The Destroyers:Operation Werewolf.’ It was a series of books written about WWII, and according to his book, the insurgency lasted for more than three years, and less than four, and far more than 42 people were killed. It took an improving daily life by the average German, the denazification program which identified each and every person in each district or precinct, and one final destructive act of terror, which killed more than sixty people in one explosion, for the Germans to say enough is enough. Which is what I have been saying for nearly four years, that it will take improving conditions in Iraq, and ultimately the Iraqi people to say when this should end. To me, it is a perfect example of what we are facing, and why we need to see it through to the end.
You will have to remain astounded by my reaction to President Bush’s joke. The LameStream isn’t liberal? That’s too funny. As for the Military Times, it’s not a military publication, it’s produced by Gannett, which also publishes the USA Today. If you want to know what the troops are saying, you need to go to milblogs, as not many of our military will talk to a reporter these days.
Good luck to you.
As for the carjacker, you need to arm yourself. A couple of guys tried that on me many years ago. I shot one in the ass, as he ran when he saw my revolver. He was lucky, the butt shot knocked him down, and the follow up shot was intended for his head, but he ducked it by going down. I stopped firing, he limped/hopped/ran away, as did his a$$hole friend.
Let me ask you a quick question, Liberal, before I leave for a while to write my pre-election entry. Do you think Kerry’s Winter Soldier testimony would have been any different if he had been under oath when “testifying?”
It is a common mistake among civilians that the Gannet publications are military. Heh. Neither is “Soldier of Fortune”.
Did anybody reference this Washington Post article I posted this morning? “Soldiers in Iraq say pullout would have devastating results”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110500770.html
Nuke, No2Libs and SwampWoman are really up on the news. I just dropped my 16-year-old daughter and her friend to a concert in downtown Houston, and I think I’ll take No2Libs’ and pack my S&W .38 Special with me when I pick them up. Nothing like a magnum in the butt to influence a mofo car jacker.
If the Democrats win the House tomorrow, it will set up Repubicans for a clean sweep in 2008. But I’m wishing for another big disapointment for America’s socialists, another defeat.
I read that earlier, and many blogs and talk shows referenced it today, as well.
One point about the military members that are speaking negatively about the GWOT, you can find malcontents in any organization. When you look at the voting participation of the military, it was 70% service wide in 06, which is about 10% higher than the total U.S. voter participation. That indicates a seriousness about how the military members believe their vote impacts their daily lives, and of course, President Bush got 122million votes in 04, the highest ever total vote tally by any Presidential candidate in history. If the largest percentage of military votes were for Senator Gigolo in ’04, it would have been widely reported.
Mick
Henh!
Please don’t try and put a mag in a .38, it won’t fit, but a .38 will fit and fire in a .357. No +P’s or +P+’s either, that frame would blow apart in your hand.
My living room handgun, and often my first choice to accompany me when I go out, is a .357 short barrel. I load the first three rounds with .38, and the last three with mag’s. The .38Sp is subsonic, and won’t shatter your ear drums when you fire it in an enclosed area…like a car. I figure that, if those three .38’s don’t do the trick, the mags will, as I will obviously have more serious considerations than hearing loss. If you can, get some Federal NyClad’s in .38Sp, a very effective personal defense round. I also strongly recommend the ammo from the link below. You can order them, or since you are in H-town, one of the many gun shows that come through will have them, as I get mine at the gun shows in Dallas. Be sure and click around on the site, there are pics of how they perform in ballistic gelatin, and pay attention to the velocities and energy of the rounds, versus standard ammo. They deliver 100% of the energy of the round shortly after impact. No pass throughs, no ricochets. If a jury ever wanted to know why you used such devastating ammo, you could tell them for safety of the general public, as they won’t penetrat walls and windows and harm an innocent person, along with no ricochets, or pass throughs harming someone behind the perp.
Most of the time, though, I prefer my good old slab side, Colt 1911a1.
http://www.rbcd.net/
No2libs,
Don’t worry, mine is a .357 as well. Thanks for the link. Can I get silent SP bullets for my .357 special?
Mick
There are no silent rounds…the burning propellant produces too much hot gas which, combined with the cooler air, causes the explosion you hear.
A silencer or suppresor is illegal, but I think you can have one if you have FFL Class III or higher.
Swampie, your link to the article about the troops, was commented on, most excellently by Ed Morrisey.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008447.php
Mick
Here’s another link, that will provide you with exceptional info.
I’m not one of those hardcore, if you don’t use the correct terminology, types that will look at you funny, or ignore you. But terminology is important, and the best approach to acquiring it is information.
http://www.thegunzone.com/
I’m pretty sure I linked both the WaPo article, and the CQ blog in the current post.
Sorry nuke.
I don’t know why we are cellar dwelling.
No2libs: Here is a good link in return. http://cheaperthandirt.com
The Russians have come up with a sub sonic technology wich isn’t silent, but very quiet. A freind told me about the “quiet rounds” for .22 and 9 mm.
I drop by CTD’s home, over in Ft. Worth, whenever I get over their.
The .22 has had low noise levels for some time, in the shorts and longs, they are known as CB’s. They aren’t silent though, just very low velocity.
http://www.22ammo.com/
I’m not familiar with low noise, or subsonic 9mm’s. Not a big 9 fan. To me they are just pitiful portable picnic poppers. Except for some of the really hot rounds by CorBon.
From a Marine Sergeant on his second tour of Iraq:
What Do Soldiers Think Of The Elections Tomorrow?
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/11/what_do_soldier.html
Info dump on the after effects of WWII, and some clips from newspapers from that time. Interesting! If not for the dates, the comments could be applied today.
http://thecr.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_thecr_archive.html#106799670552596006
Marine Col. Oliver Grant faults the American public on the war:
I think that as a society we’ve become a bunch of weak sisters. We’re not in it for the fight.
On one hand, [the American people] support the troops, but it’s only to a certain extent. They have a misconception that all wars should be fought in three days, no casualties. Declare victory, come home and have a parade. In World War II they sent you to combat and you came back when the war was over. It wasn’t for a seven-month or 13-month tour. And [America] saw you through the duration.
What really hurts is when I see my country torn in half over a political issue. Let’s get behind it regardless of what you think. People are unwilling to see what we’re doing is worthwhile.
It’s a classic good vs. evil battle. And the evil is the terrorists and they can strike us anywhere. They’re not going to go away. We’re in here for the long haul.
Read on.
http://www.redstate.com/stories/war/weve_become_a_bunch_of_weak_sisters#comment
N2L,
Tiresome? Maybe. But I find it interesting.
Ok, yep we’re way beyond the cellar in this one, but I digress:
A) Where exactly did you refute the WMD claim? Honestly. There is no hard evidence that WMD’s were moved anywhere. Surely our intelligence agencies would have been able to intercept some of them, no? And why didn’t ‘W’ ever present this as a fact in any of his stump speeches? It would have helped the Republicans enormously, no?
B) So, are you saying the SCI is wrong?
C) I’ll take your ‘perhaps not’ as a sign that you agree with me and maybe, just maybe it wasn’t BS?
D) I said ‘the world is not safer’. You claimed BS yet your rebuttal talks about America and that the world is a dangerous place. Well, it’s now a bit more dangerous.
As an aside:
I never said anything about the US being attacked since 9/11 (that would be a change of subject).
To address that argument, though. You could have said the same thing about Clinton’s policy after the 1993 WTC bombing. It took them 8 years 6 months, and 16 days to do their second attack on the WTC. Show me proof that they’ve stopped attacks. I don’t trust many politicians. Until then, I, and a lot of people, will be skeptical.
E) I honestly dont understand you rebuttal to this one. But, if I understand you, you’re saying that tribal/poverty/political/opium problems were unforseeable and have given us a harder time in Afghanistan than we were expecting. Is that correct?
Werewolves. Well, of all the books I’ve read, only a few have mentioned them and they were never considered a major threat and nothing even comprable to what’s going on in Iraq. But, I’m curious, where did that act of terror (that killed 60 people) occur?
And, finally, the Military Times. You seem to think that because it’s a Gannett publication that means it has no bearing on what the military is saying and or thinking? If that’s so, how does is stay in publication? If no one from the Forces bought it, there would be no ad revenue (no readers, no ads), and it would die as a paper (let alone four seperate papers). So, how is that?
Hope you’ve got your cup of Joe.
Nuke,
Kerrys’ testimony. Actually, I have a real simple answer for this. I do not believe anyone in the political arena 100% unless they are under oath (and even then, I have my doubts).
As for Kerry, I got the feeling that he meant what he said. BUT, and this is important, IMO he was also lining himself up for a political career. And THAT’S where I don’t trust him. To much need for ‘theatrics’ to get noticed.
What are your thoughts on his statement to SCFR on 23 April, 1971?
As for Kerry being the defacto head of the Dems (or anyone who ran for president and failed). I do not agree with that. I don’t know of anyone who thought of Gore as the head of the Dems after 2000, and certainly I don’t know anyone who thought of George Bush Sr that way. Did you think of him that way (GB sr, not Gore).
You say that it’s a mistake to judge ‘W’ on his prosecution of the war based on the press (I’m paraphrasing, sorry). So, how do you judge his prosecution of the war? I, in general only use to press to get to the true documents they are writing about, because I want to read it myself (so far, the 9/11 report was the hardest thing I have ever had to read).
Enemy Combatants. That’s gonna be a long discussion that I, sadly, don’t have time for. If you’d like to discuss it, I’d be up for the challenge. But, I know I’m adding to the basement dwelling.
As for ‘W’ keeping Clarke, I’m not so sure that he would have done things differently. You feel he would. However, we’ll never know because, sadly, we can never turn that clock back.
I know that you’re not happy about the election result, but I will say this again. I’m glad that you are around. I know we don’t agree on a lot and that some here view me with distaste, but I sure as hell am happy that you are helping to keep this country from slipping into an apathetic state.
All the best,
Liberal.
You’re welcome here any time.
I believe that it is possible for two people to look at an identical set of causes and effects and draw two completely different good faith conclusions.
I don’t think,however, that you are that far from some of the conclusions that I have drawn from the behavior of people like John Kerry. Neither kerry nor any of the winter soldier participants gave sworn testimony before the house and senate. None of them. But, the fact that I’m telling you these things 35 years after the fact goes a long way toward explaining the myth of winter soldier “testimony” and the active participation of the media in perpetuating the myth. Kerry disgusts me.
Frankly, after listening to your opinions on a variety of subjects, and entertaining your questions likewise, it is my opinion that you would find it to be more difficult to reconcile your beliefs with the modern democrat party than with the republican party. You sound much more like a “classic liberal” in the John Kennedy mold than you do in the mold of the modern liberal democrat multicultural PC victimhood crapfest. If my presumption rings true with you, then you will find yourself in good company here.
Again, please feel free to come by any time. My email is listed in the sidebar.
And, it’s not certainly not necessary to stay on this thread. Quite acceptable to go off topic on the newer threads. We don’t get too bent out of shape over stuff like that, unless it comes from trolls, which you are not.
>nuke
Liberal
Tiresome and not interesting.
We haven’t agreed on anything, and I seriously doubt we will.
Perhaps is not an agreement.
We could talk in circles forever, what’s the point?
You don’t understand the military or war, or you would know that it isn’t possible to anticipate everything. The best laid plans, and so forth.
Let’s see first WTC attack, the U.S. Embassies in Africa, Khobar Towers in Riyadh, and the U.S.S. Cole, all under President BJ, and all attacks on us, with little or no response after each. After 9-11 we began attacking them…big effing difference.
Gannett publishes for profit, not for the military, for that you need the Stars and Stripes, but if you really want to know what the troops are saying, which I’m convinced you aren’t, you need to go to the milblogs.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/11/chow_hall_react.html
As for the insurgency then and now, it’s not apples and apples, but still shows me, that quitting when the goal is attainable, is unacceptable. Life is full of challenges, some more serious and difficult than others.
What I find most interesting, is how much the mufsidun and the Global Hirabah, wanted the same electoral outcome as the left.
That tells me more than your words ever could.
Just so you know, I have despised the anti-war types for decades. I was called a baby killer at LAX, after arriving home, from the evacuation of Saigon. I had just participated in Operation Babylift, where we were successful in evacuating @3000 orphaned and refugee children, the oldest were maybe six yoa. Do you see the irony? I had just risked my life, along with my bud’s, and had lost a very good friend in a plane crash, as he was sucked out at around 27,000 ft., to save all those babies lives. I and a friend, identified his body, so his wife wouldn’t have to, she had her hands full grieving and caring for their four young daughters. Not much to identify really, traveling at 32ft per sec-squared, at that altitude. It was his personal effects that we identified.
So when I hear someone taking a position against the efforts our troops are involved in, especially when the troops believe in what they are doing, I have a perspective you could never understand, and one that will never be altered by you. I believe our efforts in the GWOT can and have been adapted, and should continue to be adapted to the ever adapting and changing enemies. Cut and Run is not a plan, it’s a quitters approach, which will disgrace our nation, and military once again, while emboldening our enemies.
For what? Political gain for opportunist? *SPIT*
Also, Reagan and I were both Democrats for many years, before we wised up, and he was also much kinder.
How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin— Ronald Wilson Reagan.
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